Permits

[WirenutNH]

I'm looking to see if someone can point me to where in the NEC or Mass amendments where it states an electrical permit is required to do electrical work. Thanks for all help

 

[kwired]

I'm looking to see if someone can point me to where in the NEC or Mass amendments where it states an electrical permit is required to do electrical work. Thanks for all help

I can tell you the NEC doesn't even mention permits, that is not what it is about.

Permits come from the AHJ at the location of the work that is being done. Rules relating to such permits will vary from state to state, or even from one city, village, county, township, etc. to another. You could find yourself in situation at times where rules are different at one location then they are across the street because the two are covered by different AHJ's.

Most AHJ's will have conditions that do not require permits, often limited to maintenance or repair work where you are only returning things to same condition they were in before the work was done. Most cases of new installation requires permits, but it gets more complicated in some places just what work does or does not require a permit, may be based on many factors such as type of occupancy, total cost of project, percentage of facility effected by such installation, and many other factors are possibilities.

Best way to answer your question is to speak to AHJ where you are going to do the work, or get copies of any rules they have.

 

[iwire]

I'm looking to see if someone can point me to where in the NEC or Mass amendments where it states an electrical permit is required to do electrical work. Thanks for all help

No where in either. The NEC nor the MA amendments have anything at all to do with licensing, permits or inspections.

All of those are covered in the Massachusetts General Laws.

I will post it shortly.

 

[iwire]

Here is part of MGL Chapter 143 Section 3L

No person shall install for hire any electrical wiring or fixtures subject to this section without first or within five days after commencing the work giving notice to the inspector of wires appointed pursuant to the provisions of section thirty-two of chapter one hundred and sixty-six. Said notice shall be given by mailing or delivering a permit application form prepared by the board, to said inspector. Any person failing to give such notice shall be punished by a fine not exceeding five hundred dollars. This section shall be enforced by the inspector of wires within his jurisdiction and the state examiners of electricians.

Any person installing for hire electrical wiring or fixtures subject to this section shall notify the inspector of wires in writing upon the completion of the work. The inspector of wires shall, within five days of such notification, give written notice of his approval or disapproval of said work. A notice of disapproval shall contain specifications of the part of the work disapproved, together with a reference to the rule or regulation of the board of fire prevention regulations which has been violated.

 

[WirenutNH]

Permits

Here is part of MGL Chapter 143 Section 3L

Thank you Iwire for forwarding that info.

 

[JDBrown]

Here is part of MGL Chapter 143 Section 3L

No person shall install for hire any electrical wiring or fixtures subject to this section without first or within five days after commencing the work giving notice to the inspector of wires appointed pursuant to the provisions of section thirty-two of chapter one hundred and sixty-six. Said notice shall be given by mailing or delivering a permit application form prepared by the board, to said inspector. Any person failing to give such notice shall be punished by a fine not exceeding five hundred dollars. This section shall be enforced by the inspector of wires within his jurisdiction and the state examiners of electricians.

Any person installing for hire electrical wiring or fixtures subject to this section shall notify the inspector of wires in writing upon the completion of the work. The inspector of wires shall, within five days of such notification, give written notice of his approval or disapproval of said work. A notice of disapproval shall contain specifications of the part of the work disapproved, together with a reference to the rule or regulation of the board of fire prevention regulations which has been violated.

So does that mean a homeowner in MA is allowed to do his own electrical work without pulling a permit, since he's not "installing for hire"? Or is that just covered by a different section of the MGL? I don't need a reference or anything; it's just idle curiosity on my part.

 

[jaylectricity]

So does that mean a homeowner in MA is allowed to do his own electrical work without pulling a permit, since he's not "installing for hire"? Or is that just covered by a different section of the MGL? I don't need a reference or anything; it's just idle curiosity on my part.

Yes it does. From my last code refresher course they mentioned that people are trying to take out those words "for hire" from the law but it never goes through and the law remains the same.

 

[jaylectricity]

Technically I don't have to pull a permit to put in some lights for my uncle for free, but it would look awfully suspicious. Not sure where the burden of proof is on that.

 

[shortcircuit2]

So does that mean a homeowner in MA is allowed to do his own electrical work without pulling a permit, since he's not "installing for hire"? Or is that just covered by a different section of the MGL? I don't need a reference or anything; it's just idle curiosity on my part.

Said homeowner may also be liable for loss of life or property damage from electrical work done on his property...hire licensed contractors for protection.

 

[iwire]

So does that mean a homeowner in MA is allowed to do his own electrical work without pulling a permit, since he's not "installing for hire"? .

Yes it does.

Yes it does. From my last code refresher course they mentioned that people are trying to take out those words "for hire" from the law but it never goes through and the law remains the same.

Thankfully the state is using some commonsense. HOs should be able to work on their own homes.

Said homeowner may also be liable for loss of life or property damage from electrical work done on his property...hire licensed contractors for protection.

We are all liable for any actions we take, that is life.

 

[kwired]

Technically I don't have to pull a permit to put in some lights for my uncle for free, but it would look awfully suspicious. Not sure where the burden of proof is on that.

But it is not done for free if he pays you with steaks and beer

Thankfully the state is using some commonsense. HOs should be able to work on their own homes

I have no problem allowing HO's to do their own work, I think they have a constitutional right to do so. But why should they be exempt from permits or inspections? I could go another direction that may derail this in a political direction by asking if permits or inspections violate our constitutional rights regardless of who does what. I think everyone could have a valid reason to challenge that when in a situation where permits are required - and I am talking more than just electrical installation permits, but at same time anyone that has given it much thought probably figures it is not worth fighting it either, then comes insurance and other industries that start rejecting coverage or services if you don't meet certain standards - which is kind of where these codes originate from more so than governing bodies.

 

[iwire]

But why should they be exempt from permits or inspections?

Well for one thing even if they were required they would not happen.

 

[kwired]

Well for one thing even if they were required they would not happen.

Kind of depends.

Here there is no permit required for most so called small projects in dwellings. If I go add 1 branch circuit, or even just make modifications on an existing circuit in a single family dwelling there is no requirement to file for a permit or get this inspected. I have many times even done major renovations to a house with no permit and was legal. If I put in a new service - even if it is same capacity as the original I now have to get a permit and inspection, and all new circuits brought to that service are also subject to inspection. They do catch those new services because the POCO's are sent a notification of the permit. NO permit they are not supposed to connect the new service. There are still cases where permits are not filed when they should have been.

 

[Sierrasparky]

down in Calif They do not use the NEC per se they adopt NEC make changes and call it CA electric code. The CA electric code has provisions for administration, permts and enforcement.

 

[gadfly56]

Well for one thing even if they were required they would not happen.

In NJ they are and they do.

 

[iwire]

In NJ they are and they do.

Are you really trying to say homeowners are pulling all the permits they should? :lol:

 

[gadfly56]

Are you really trying to say homeowners are pulling all the permits they should? :lol:

All, no, not by a long shot. However, homeowners have been nailed for doing work without permits/inspections, usually when they go to sell. Buyers sometimes ask about additions and will go to the town to see if the work got a final inspection. Some AHJ's just have no sense of humor and make folks pony up the permit fees AND hammer open dry wall to inspect electrical and/or plumbing work.

 

[JDBrown]

down in Calif They do not use the NEC per se they adopt NEC make changes and call it CA electric code. The CA electric code has provisions for administration, permts and enforcement.

Yep, that's life out here in the land of fun & sun. My experience is that most homeowners will pull permits for anything major, even if they're doing it themselves. Little things like adding a light or two, or a separate circuit for a vent hood/microwave maybe, a lot of people won't pull a permit for -- basically, stuff for which they're really unlikely to ever get caught. I'm sure it varies from one area to the next, though (and from one person to the next, for that matter).

 

[kingpb]

All, no, not by a long shot. However, homeowners have been nailed for doing work without permits/inspections, usually when they go to sell. Buyers sometimes ask about additions and will go to the town to see if the work got a final inspection. Some AHJ's just have no sense of humor and make folks pony up the permit fees AND hammer open dry wall to inspect electrical and/or plumbing work.

I agree, that's usually how it happens; during a sale. I have also seen the walls ripped open to verify, needless to say it drove the cost of the sale price down considerably.

 

[gadfly56]

I agree, that's usually how it happens; during a sale. I have also seen the walls ripped open to verify, needless to say it drove the cost of the sale price down considerably.

For people who ask "What could possibly go wrong"; well, there's your answer.