pump on GFCI

[Gaffen99]

I have a small landscape pond in outside courtyard. I'm being told that after a year of service the pump starts to trip the gfci outlet sporadically. Someone once said that a certain motor will do this after it breaks in and ages, but after a year? Anyone can help?

 

[Gregg Harris]

I have a small landscape pond in outside courtyard. I'm being told that after a year of service the pump starts to trip the gfci outlet sporadically. Someone once said that a certain motor will do this after it breaks in and ages, but after a year? Anyone can help?

On a receptacle or breaker?

 

[Gaffen99]

Its an outlet. I am looking for a solution to fix the problem, maybe a hard wired disconnect. But I would like to know why this keeps happening every year.

 

[iwire]

The pumps are cheap, water gets in the electrical areas and it trips.

I would not eliminate the GFCI and I would not hardwire it.

 

[electricman2]

I have a small pump on an outdoor fountain on a GFCI. About 5 years plus with no problems. Get a high quality pump and you should be OK.

 

[sparkycoog]

The cheapest solution is to replace the GFCI and make sure and seal the outlet in case water is getting in. If it still trips, then change the pump. I would not eliminate the GFCI either for something like this that can end up killing someone.

 

[Gregg Harris]

The cheapest solution is to replace the GFCI and make sure and seal the outlet in case water is getting in. If it still trips, then change the pump. I would not eliminate the GFCI either for something like this that can end up killing someone.

X2

 

[Dennis Alwon]

The cheapest solution is to replace the GFCI and make sure and seal the outlet in case water is getting in. If it still trips, then change the pump. I would not eliminate the GFCI either for something like this that can end up killing someone.

In my experience never once has replacing the gfci ever worked. I only do it to appease the home owner however a new pump is the solution in most case. I agree with electicman2 about a quality pump. I have seen owners replace pumps almost yearly until they finally get the idea and get a quality pump. As soon as the seals wear out the gfci will trip

 

[Gaffen99]

New and quality pump it is. Thanks. But, is there any truth to the brushes of the motor wearing and causing the trip?

 

[GoldDigger]

New and quality pump it is. Thanks. But, is there any truth to the brushes of the motor wearing and causing the trip?

Very little. Brushes worn to the point that they started grinding into the copper from metal to metal contact, or were no longer held in good contact by their springs could cause a signature that could trip an AFCI. But there is no way it could cause a ground fault in a properly insulated pump unless the conductive dust from both the brushes and ground-down copper from the commutator somehow created a current path to a grounded part of the motor frame.

 

[ActionDave]

New and quality pump it is. Thanks. But, is there any truth to the brushes of the motor wearing and causing the trip?

Unlikely there are brushes. More likely water getting in the motor end of the pump. Like Dennis said, a leaky seal. Sump pumps are usually filled with oil. Over time the oil gets displaced.

 

[GoldDigger]

Unlikely there are brushes.

If the unit is an AC-only (induction) motor, it would not need (or want) brushes.
If it is a universal (AC/DC) motor it will need either brushes or a built-in inverter drive.

 

[ActionDave]

If it is a universal (AC/DC) motor it will need either brushes or a built-in inverter drive.

Finding a landscape sump pump with a universal motor may not be the same as capturing Bigfoot but certainly would be like catching a live giant squid.

 

[GoldDigger]

Finding a landscape sump pump with a universal motor may not be the same as capturing Bigfoot but certainly would be like catching a live giant squid.

Note that this is although the OP described a landscape pond, elecricalman2 also introduce the "small outdoor fountain" which might have a fish tank pump rather than a landscape sump pump. I agree that the best and cheapest way to build it will be with an induction motor or even buzzer diaphragm, so that is all you are likely to see.
There are DC pumps available for RV and other use (typically low voltage though.)

But in any case, I agree with you that wear on the motor brushes could only be a contributing problem if it had brushes in the first place! And probably not even then.