What would you do?

[mgookin]

A product comes along which will save your customer money but it also means you'll have less service work going forward. Do you suggest it to your customer or hide it from them?

Thanks!

 

[JDBrown]

I just voted, although I'm not an electrician and therefore don't really have anything to do with service work. Even so, the idea of hiding a product from a customer just so I can maybe make a buck later on strikes me as so sleazy that I literally shuddered just thinking about it.

I would be quite the hypocrite to support this type of practice, given how often I find myself ranting against manufacturers who seem to design their products to fail a month after the warranty expires. Or how often I find myself irritated about devices that can't be repaired when broken, they have to be replaced.

I have a feeling that if you were to hide the new product from your customer, you might find it comes back to bite you in the end. Like when the time for service work arrives and he's heard about the new product from someone else, so he decides to ditch you for one of your competitors.

My experience with any new technology like that is that it tends to be pricey and there tend to be a number of bugs that have to get worked out during the first generation. So you could pitch the idea to your customer like this:

"Now, the traditional way to handle this type of an installation is to use an ABC, but there's this new XYZ that's just come out and is supposed to be maintenance-free. The drawbacks are that it's a new, unproven technology, and it's going to be more expensive. With the ABC, you'd have a less expensive, proven solution, but you know going in that it's going to require annual maintenance. So, which option would you like to go with?"

You might even add in, "I'll be honest with you: if you go with the XYZ I stand to make a lot less money in the long run, because you won't need to have me come back every year to service the equipment. But I want to make sure you get the best installation for your needs." People remember that sort of thing, and they mention it to their friends. I've had this sort of thing happen with a used car salesman, and I recommended him to all sorts of people: "Hey, this guy was honest and up-front with me, and he didn't try to play any games."

From what I've seen, no matter what business you're in, if you make a habit of burning your customers, after a while you'll look around and find you've got no customers left to burn.

 

[__dan]

I you had asked could I do the dancing bear act in the purchaser's two ring circus, the answer is no. But I have watched in awe and wonder as others have been able to, and profit repeatedly from.

 

[mjf]

Seems the more I try to do the "right" thing by others, the better things end up working out for me. Suggest the product.

 

[petersonra]

I have discovered that the magic products that supposedly save money over time often don't.

The thing is that if you make the suggestion you own it, and when it fails to meet his expectations he will remember who sold it to him.

Think about all the people conned into early versions of electronic ballasts.

 

[kwired]

I have discovered that the magic products that supposedly save money over time often don't.

The thing is that if you make the suggestion you own it, and when it fails to meet his expectations he will remember who sold it to him.

Think about all the people conned into early versions of electronic ballasts.

Think of all the people required to use AFCI's:angel:

 

[mgookin]

Thanks to all who participated in the poll.

As to "designed to fail" the first thing that comes to mind is cell phones. They have the ability to update the software over the air without you even knowing it. And they can send a kill pill just as easy as soon as "you're eligible for an upgrade". Then when you call to say your phone doesn't work, they act like you just won the lottery "Oh, I see you're ELIGIBLE for an UPGRADE!" (read that - your contract just ended but they don't want you to know that). I won't mention company names, but it's rampant in the industry.

Green technology has gotten a bad rap because of false claims. There are many in the industry who do nothing at all but want you to believe that if you give them a pile of money, they'll save you three piles of money. They call POCO for the free energy audit, then find expensive systems where they jack up the price and you still have to hire contractors to do changeouts on A/C, lighting, etc. What do you get for your pile of money? The (free) energy audit.

Thanks again.

 

[ptonsparky]

Two items stI nd out for me. PLCs w/HMI and Phase Loss Monitors. Neither are new to us, but for the right customer, worth the effort and cost.

I would rather see customers up and running vs waiting for me.

 

[kwired]

Thanks to all who participated in the poll.

As to "designed to fail" the first thing that comes to mind is cell phones. They have the ability to update the software over the air without you even knowing it. And they can send a kill pill just as easy as soon as "you're eligible for an upgrade". Then when you call to say your phone doesn't work, they act like you just won the lottery "Oh, I see you're ELIGIBLE for an UPGRADE!" (read that - your contract just ended but they don't want you to know that). I won't mention company names, but it's rampant in the industry.

Green technology has gotten a bad rap because of false claims. There are many in the industry who do nothing at all but want you to believe that if you give them a pile of money, they'll save you three piles of money. They call POCO for the free energy audit, then find expensive systems where they jack up the price and you still have to hire contractors to do changeouts on A/C, lighting, etc. What do you get for your pile of money? The (free) energy audit.

Thanks again.

Though what you said about the cell phones could be true, many people have physically abused or worn out their phone by the time contracts expire and often are waiting for it to expire so they can get a new phone.

As for green technology, yes many items are more efficient than older ones, but I also have suggested to people that unless they just want a change for other reasons, that payback on some items may not be all that short of a time.

 

[Rewire]

We have several clients that have smoke detectors in the front foyer that are 18 feet to reach. We have a 16 foor folding ladder just to change batteries in these. We now suggest an upgrade to a rechargeable battery backup detector. We have done several and have replaced all the smoke heads on those that are over 10 years old. So suggesting an up grade has led to more work.

 

[dhalleron]

And they can send a kill pill just as easy as soon as "you're eligible for an upgrade".

This I do believe.

My nearly 2 year old Droid Razr was acting up with slow Internet with a 4G connection, slow reaction to text input sometimes. I restored it to factory settings and it is not much better. Certainly not like it was when it was new. It still looks new and there are no moving parts. What could really be wrong with it unless a kill pill?

 

[GoldDigger]

This I do believe.

My nearly 2 year old Droid Razr was acting up with slow Internet with a 4G connection, slow reaction to text input sometimes. I restored it to factory settings and it is not much better. Certainly not like it was when it was new. It still looks new and there are no moving parts. What could really be wrong with it unless a kill pill?

1. Memory usage if you have kept stuff stored on it. Did resetting to factory delete everything too?
2. The fact that various apps loaded on the phone have gone through many updates while the underlying OS has stayed the same.
3. Flash memory (used as the only storage mechanism on smart phones) has a limited number of times that a particular bit cell can be rewritten without degradation and failure. After a long enough use the phone has less memory to use and also has to work around gaps in that memory.

If you could go back to the original OS with the original version of all of the installed apps and with a complete wipe of the memory, you might get back to original performance, or you might not if it is mainly a memory issue.

 

[cowboyjwc]

Also on our plan my son has "unlimited" 4G unless he uses to much and then the speed drops to 2G.

 

[Fulthrotl]

1. Memory usage if you have kept stuff stored on it. Did resetting to factory delete everything too?
2. The fact that various apps loaded on the phone have gone through many updates while the underlying OS has stayed the same.
3. Flash memory (used as the only storage mechanism on smart phones) has a limited number of times that a particular bit cell can be rewritten without degradation and failure. After a long enough use the phone has less memory to use and also has to work around gaps in that memory.

If you could go back to the original OS with the original version of all of the installed apps and with a complete wipe of the memory, you might get back to original performance, or you might not if it is mainly a memory issue.

i'm voting on tired flash memory. SSD's (high quality ones) have extra
data blocks in them, and wear leveling chipsets to keep the drive from
potholing... but... cellphones, with a life span engineered for 18~24 months
or so, just have what they have, and it gets worn with use... and this
stuff is engineered to be *just enough* to get you to the next phone
after this one.

as much as i love a good "evil empire" plot, if any cellphone maker
intentionally built in a "cripple function", i can think of three things
happening, right off the top of my head....

his competition, reverse engineering his product, would discover
this, and spread the information far and wide to damage the the
competition's credibility.

can you imagine what samsung would pay for proof that the iphone
has a death code embedded in the firmware?

the second thing would be the resulting class action lawsuit that
would crop up.

but the third thing that would show up first...... would be some
el33te haqu3r (code for 17 year old geek in des moines, or beijing)
figuring out how to kill every iphone on the planet, and doing it.

i've muttered darkly about the "black void" theory after some of
my stuff has died.

i had TWO identical fujitsu laptops, and within 60 days of the
warranty expiring, so did the screens.

within about 10 days of each other. and they had hugely different
usage amounts. makes one mutter and peer around for black
helicopters, and global conspiracies.

it's just extremely complex stuff made as cheaply as possible
in a hugely competitive environment.

 

[GUNNING]

ditto

ditto

I have discovered that the magic products that supposedly save money over time often don't.

The thing is that if you make the suggestion you own it, and when it fails to meet his expectations he will remember who sold it to him.

Think about all the people conned into early versions of electronic ballasts.

I would give the customer a choice. Tell them it is new and no track record. What do they want to do.
I do not have to live with it. Putting it in means money in my pocket. How many times have you been promised LOTS of future work just if... Let the customer make the decision.

I too believe beta new releases are a hazard. I look for price stabilization; and product durability, reliability, and availability before I recommend a product. :slaphead:

 

[Sierrasparky]

Seems like the majority of the voter will show the new product.
Go figure.

 

[gadfly56]

This I do believe.

My nearly 2 year old Droid Razr was acting up with slow Internet with a 4G connection, slow reaction to text input sometimes. I restored it to factory settings and it is not much better. Certainly not like it was when it was new. It still looks new and there are no moving parts. What could really be wrong with it unless a kill pill?

I dunno. I have a "dumb" Samsung flip-phone that's older than my youngest son. I've blown through at least 2 upgrade cycles and fast approaching my 3rd. On the other hand, I don't do anything except make phone calls. I doubt that I've sent as many as a dozen text messages in all those years. Very occasionally I'll throw an appointment into the calendar. I still get about 3 day's usage out of a charge, which is only a little less than I used to. Maybe I'm too far below the radar for the "kill pill".

 

[templdl]

A product comes along which will save your customer money but it also means you'll have less service work going forward. Do you suggest it to your customer or hide it from them?

Thanks!

It is entirely dependent upon your relationship with your customer. If you feel that it may beneficial to having a long term relationship with you customer, that they can be assured that you are looking out for their best interest then go for it. But if you have to ask the question then I get the feeling that you are hesitant in doing so. As such I would complete the contract as originally agreed to. Unless you can get the benefit of differentiating yourself from you competitors I wouldn't do anything more than the contract calls for unless you feel that you can capitalize on your ability. But I've learned that you should never bet on the come as more so than not a bird in the hand is worth a heck of a lot more than two in the tree any day of the week.
Don't give away your talent. It's worth something.

 

[MichaelKelley]

We use to suggest to the customer as it is our responsibility in guiding the customers that may help them for saving some extra bucks and eventually it will increase their trust towards us.

 

[gadfly56]

A product comes along which will save your customer money but it also means you'll have less service work going forward. Do you suggest it to your customer or hide it from them?

Thanks!

Since so far zero voters have said they'd withold the information on the new product, you can guess where I am. My situation is a little different, since I'm licensed as a professional engineer. I have a fiduciary responsibility to the customer as well as my company, so professional ethics compels me (not that I need that stick, or so I'd like to think) to reveal all pertinent information to my customer, depending on the scope of work that's been contracted. On the other hand, if I'm not doing work for a particular customer of ours at the time I become aware of the product, that's a little different. Then I'll contact the service manager and let him know that I think customer ABC might be interested in the product and let him take it from there.