auto-cad or related programs

[sparky724]

was wondering if anybody knows of cheaper version of auto cad....we are attempting to start up a UL panel-shop for building plc's and need a way to get wiring diagrams and such on paper so we can get the UL listing....not exactly sure what type of program to use and don't want to spend a bunch of money if i don't need too

 

[JDBrown]

I've used progeCAD before, and it was okay. Seemed to work fine for my little personal projects at home (that's why I used it -- there's a free version for non-commercial use). It's been a few years ago, but I seem to recall that there were some nuanced differences between progeCAD and AutoCAD (mainly having to do with LiSP files, I think). But it's been long enough ago that that may not longer be the case anyway.

I just checked their website and it looks like the professional version is about $400. So, about 10% of the price of AutoCAD 2014 -- yikes!

No matter what CAD program you choose, I highly recommend downloading the free trial and using it as much as you possibly can during the trial period to get a feel for whether or not it's what you really want. There are few things that suck worse than having to go to your boss and say, "You know that computer program we spent a bunch of money on because I said we really needed it? Well, it turns out it doesn't do what we need."

 

[cadpoint]

I 'd call the local 2 year college or trade/vocational school and ask to confer wilh the teachers of the Cad in person.

You will get to see what they are using and they might have a placement ready (a student) for you.

While ACad is the most widely used it just happens to be the default CAD software. If your not in ACad format via the file extension "dwg" then your in another format. What you have to be sure is that the lower priced CAD software can handle all the transfer of block or nested library items ie continually used items.

There are many inexpensive software packages, ACAD Lt and Bentley/Microstation both have - half priced packages. B/M has had the most consisant file transfer capability over the years.

PDF's, JPG, DXF, DWG - in/out, & DGN should be the minimum all be able to handled and be used by any cheap software. Frankly there are plenty available. If its just going to be stick drafting go cheap, but if transferring of information, library and transfers of stored library blocks-cellls you'll just have to QA with cheaper software.

Be advised that there will be a learning curve with any software. Maybe you could PT a student.
Good luck.

 

[zbang]

The people that do SolidWorks, Dassault Syst?mes, have a free version called DraftSight (http://www.3ds.com/products-services/draftsight/). In the short time I've played with it, seems OK. Was able to import some larger acad DWG files without a problem.

 

[SceneryDriver]

+1 on DraftSight. It behaves near-enough-as-makes-no-difference the same as AutoCAD LT. No 3D support, but you shouldn't need that for schematics. Also, I've used DesignWorks by Capilano Computing for years:

http://www.capilano.com/dww_overview

It's a cool mix of board-level device symbols (caps, diodes, resistors, etc...) along with industrial controls symbols (CB's, contactors, O/L's, etc...). You can create your own devices and symbols; I've got several libraries of several hundred parts I've created over the years. It's pretty perfect for the type of panel and project design I do. I believe the trial version is free too. It exports to DXF, so any AutoCAD-type drafting program can read your files, though I tend to plot to PDF directly from the program myself.


-SceneryDriver

 

[Ragin Cajun]

Having used Auto Cad for over 25 years I have a few insights.

In the grand scheme of things, the cost of most CAD system software becomes irrelevant. The cost that matters is training, be it an existing employee or a new one you hire. Using an industry standard CAD system means you can hire about anyone familiar with a given CAD system without additional CAD training.

Being in the consulting side of things, everyone I deal with has Auto Cad. Certainly all the architects do. If you get into large industrial clients, you will run into Micro station. But the file conversion between Micro station and Auto Cad from my own experience is quite good.


Remember, eventually you get what you pay for!


RC

 

[Fulthrotl]

was wondering if anybody knows of cheaper version of auto cad....we are attempting to start up a UL panel-shop for building plc's and need a way to get wiring diagrams and such on paper so we can get the UL listing....not exactly sure what type of program to use and don't want to spend a bunch of money if i don't need too

autocad light is what i use.

there is both a windows and a mac version.
however, there are TWO mac versions. one is
available thru autodesk and everyone else,
and the other one is available thru the apple store.

the apple store version is quite a bit cheaper than
the non apple store version. however, IT IS NOT
UPGRADEABLE. IT IS A THROWAWAY.
"PLEASE NOTE:
The AutoCAD LT 2013 App (purchased from Apple's Mac App store)
is delivered as unserialized media, and is therefore not eligible
for upgrades or Autodesk Subscription."

autocad LT is $1,000 for either mac or windows.
it's $180 more for a subscription that gets you
annual updates, and some support and cloud
services.

an upgrade without the subscription is about $650.

ACAD is the industry standard. native autocad files
are what almost everyone uses for almost everything.

and if you opt for a "fully compatible" clone, make up
a bunch of drawings, and a ways down the road find
out that it turns out there are a few things that don't
quite convert in or out, the price difference won't even
matter.

 

[abhishekbt]

progeCAD is good for you I think, I too have heard about this and feedback for the same is really good.

 

[dmagyar]

Take a look at Electra 6

Take a look at Electra 6

I've got the trial version and it seems to work well doing schematic drawings. It's an add on to Visio and depending on which version you purchase may be cost competitive.

 

[zbang]

Another thing... if you're bending or contracting sheetmetal and enclosures from flat stock, solidworks or pro-engineer are almost a requirement as they know how to make 3-d models and "unfold" them into cutting diagrams. Not an issue if you're using all stock parts.

 

[cadpoint]

Another thing... if you're bending or contracting sheetmetal and enclosures from flat stock, solidworks or pro-engineer are almost a requirement as they know how to make 3-d models and "unfold" them into cutting diagrams. Not an issue if you're using all stock parts.

Well this statement took me back a few years. It' not that difficult to find and use a metal bend math equation although it might be a complex equation and it might just be a simple mathematical algebraic expression. LOL, I can't remember but it's not that hard to understand!


It's nice to know that CAD is keeping up with requirements of the design age!

 

[peter]

I got IMSI TurboCAD for$50. The latest version has the ability to save in JPG. Almost anything will do however. You might look into SketchUP from Google. It's free!
~Peter

 

[aronmatt3]

I have never used any software for this purpose and doing same on paper from a long time now.

 

[Barbqranch]

Try your local JC

Try your local JC

I was interested in learning AutoCad during the brief time I was retired, and took a class at the local JC. They had an evening class, but I was able to take the daytime offering. One of the benefits was being able to buy a permanent license for AutoCad LT for $110. Can't upgrade, but I don't need to.

 

[tom baker]

I recommend Visio. Its a great program for doing panel layous - and schematics. Many companies have shapes that are available, you grab them and drop onto drawing, they automatically rescale for the drawing size. PM me your email and I will send you a panel drawing I have done.
What I like about Visio is I can put in a picture or link to my panel schedules, parts lists in excel.
Cost - seems like around $400 not sure. Once you see it you will like it. much easier than cad.

 

[Rick Christopherson]

was wondering if anybody knows of cheaper version of auto cad....we are attempting to start up a UL panel-shop for building plc's and need a way to get wiring diagrams and such on paper so we can get the UL listing....not exactly sure what type of program to use and don't want to spend a bunch of money if i don't need too

I've used a lot of cad systems over the years, including AutoCad and AutoCadLT. For the type of work that you want to accomplish in a non-cad oriented shop, I strongly suggest taking a look at VisualCADD. It's $429 new, but only $149 if you can follow any of the upgrade paths.

For creating ladder diagrams and other forms of wiring diagrams, orthogonal mode and snaps will be critical. VC handles them far better than AutoCad or AutoCadLT. It also has a far lower learning curve for a novice user. The interface is very intuitive, which is the opposite of the Autocad interface (in my opinion as an experienced operator). You'll be able to start a drawing in just a few minutes and be reasonably refined in your methods by the time it is done. If memory serves me, you will find most of your electrical symbols in an easy to navigate library.

This software has a very long history, and was once even owned by AutoDesk (aka AutoCad). AutoDesk purchased the software for the sole purpose of killing it, because it so deeply threatened the still-young AutoCad at the time. That didn't sit well with the original software developers, so they all quit AutoDesk and started their own company to continue the software they had originally created.

Oh, it fully supports AutoCad DWG files, and you can even set DWG to be the default format if you wish.

Even though my primary system is now SolidWorks, I still keep a copy of Visual Cadd on my computer for times when I need to complete 2D drafting.

Download the fully functional trial version, and buy the license after you have had a chance to see if it fits your needs.

 

[I^2R]

We use AutoCAD electrical for our panel shop.

The schematics are "smart"; automatic BOMs, automatic wire breaking, numbering, automatic cross referencing (i.e; having the rung number of the coil show next to the contact and vice-versa)
You can grab a push button from your library, contactors, PLC modules, whatever and you get the schematic representation, a panel layout and BOM entry all in one shot. Same with terminal strips, drop a terminal on a wire run on your schematic and it generates the associated terminal graphic on your panel layout as well, complete with wire number cross reference.
Product is an specialized version of AutoCAD built specifically for control drawings.

We also run AutoCAD MEP for our building electrical design. Same deal with MEP, it keeps track of loads on circuits, generates panel and lighting schedules, and on and on. Did it for years on vanilla AutoCAD but production doubled once we were up to speed with purpose built software.

The packages are expensive and have a steep learning curve, but they're fast, and as they say, time is money. I guess it depends what you are trying to do and on what scale. If you plan to run a panel shop you need to be able to turn out professional, consistent drawings quick. If you're talking about one drawing a month, then probably not worth it.
All the CAD work here is my responsibility and when it's 9pm and I have a drawing that I have to get out, I want the fastest tool I can get. I couldn't imagine going back to any plain CAD package again.

YMMV

 

[petersonra]

draft sight works as well as autocad for basic drafting, maybe better. completely free.

 

[jcassity]

i use visio for everything.. and a vast amount of cooke cutter templates and shapes.

very user friendly with your existing windows ,, cant speak to Mac

 

[satcom]

was wondering if anybody knows of cheaper version of auto cad....we are attempting to start up a UL panel-shop for building plc's and need a way to get wiring diagrams and such on paper so we can get the UL listing....not exactly sure what type of program to use and don't want to spend a bunch of money if i don't need too

We started using the Microsoft Surface 2 , and had to find a drawing app, that would work with out old Delta Cad Dwg drawings and allow us to produce a quality set of plans, we found "Back to the Drawing Board " App in the app store, and it does everything we need and a lot more for the price of $19 I consider it a real deal