125v and 250v in the same cord assembly

[Nycedreemz]

I appreciate everyones input on the subject and that there are still tradesmen out there who care enough about what they do to pass along some sound advice to keep people safe. Its nice to see that kind of pride still in the industry. :thumbsup:

This is how great ideas are born ya know.

With the assembly i was originally talking about, it was more about creating a convenience that actually worked and step aside from regulation for a second and just see what I could come up with. Just a little out of the box thinking..........kinda like the Dyson vacuum guy:lol:.

 

[kwired]

I am thrilled and a little surprised the subject took off the way it did. Heres how it all started, I provided a friend if mine a Locking 14-30 generator cord for his own generator. Upon his examining the cord against the cord that he purchased at a big box store, he was curious about the rating stamp on the L14-30P and the L14-30R which read 125v/250v

I explained to him how it can be assembled to provide 125v max or 250v max. Later i began to think about it a bit and decided to expirement a little myself.

I terminated two individual 3wire soow cables into the L14-30P and wired one 250v (L6-30R) and the other 125v (L5-30R). This was simple enough to do even though the device has termination limits on the poles as well as max diameter cable in the strain relief.

I hardwired a ROJ (removed outer jacket) cord into my panel on a 250v breaker at my service with a L14-30R to feed my little custom assembly. After testing each end of my nifty little splitter i found the proper voltage present at each connector. 118v at the L5-30R and 236v at the L6-30R. Now this of course was under no load whatsoever so..........

My idea behind it was to feed 125v/250v equipment within a server rack from one source. A single rack fed with one whip that served both of those demands.

I have done this with an L21-30P feeding three L6-30R's, however that assembly has all three connectors at 208v single phase output from a three phase 120v/208v source. This was all just speculative spitballing and no need to create a "Whos got the bigger brain contest"

Is exactly what is done with services, feeders, and multiwire branch circuits, we do not run a separate "neutral" for each "phase conductor". We also do not run a neutral if the circuit doesn't utilize a neutral connection. Exception being the service still needs a "grounded" conductor by code if the system has a grounded conductor, but we do not have to extend it to equipment that doesn't utilize it.

 

[Nycedreemz]

Is exactly what is done with services, feeders, and multiwire branch circuits, we do not run a separate "neutral" for each "phase conductor". We also do not run a neutral if the circuit doesn't utilize a neutral connection. Exception being the service still needs a "grounded" conductor by code if the system has a grounded conductor, but we do not have to extend it to equipment that doesn't utilize it.

Gotcha, my biggest hangup on the whole thing was like others have mentioned that its not a good idea to disregard the termination and strain relief capacities of a plug or connector.

The splitter i made disregards both limitations.

I dont see anything unsafe about it, but in the event of a failure of any kind in the assembly, it can very easily be blamed on the assembly method and that the manufacturer guidelines were not followed.

However,

If i were to sell such an adapter and provide full disclosure on the assembly and a no liability disclaimer, i feel like the seller is in the clear and it is the recipient's responsibility to use and connect the assembly properly and to not exceed the max load capable of the assembly.

When purchasing an extension cord from any retailer, the purchaser is given a max rating in the instructions for the cord and its up to the buyer to use the cord responsibly and place under a load that does not exceed its capability. If you fried any cord manufacturers cord or exceeded its capacity and that damaged your equipment, that company themselves are not liable or responsible for the damage to your equipment or personnel-(God Forbid).

It can very easily be argued that the assembly was not used in accordance with that companies instructions for that cord assembly. Like i said before there are a lot of grey areas when it comes to custom power cord assembly and why UL will absolutely not list anything but a cord assembly that is the same volt, amp, and pole count on both sides of the assembly.

If there are companies selling assemblies that start dropping legs or going from three to four pole and stuff like that, UL wants nothing to do with it and encourages people to stay away from such things because they are not "Listable"
Anybody selling such configurations and claiming that it is a "UL Listed" product is Fraudulently selling that assembly.

When a customer of such an assembly is made aware that it is not a "UL Listed" assembly and purchases the assembly with that knowledge, the manufacturer should give instructions and ratings for the assemblies and if they are exceeded or if failure occurs due to misuse, that company should not be held liable. If it can be proven that the assembly was wired incorrectly however i would expect that any respectable seller will accept the responsibility and compensate accordingly.

 

[kwired]

Gotcha, my biggest hangup on the whole thing was like others have mentioned that its not a good idea to disregard the termination and strain relief capacities of a plug or connector.

The splitter i made disregards both limitations.

I dont see anything unsafe about it, but in the event of a failure of any kind in the assembly, it can very easily be blamed on the assembly method and that the manufacturer guidelines were not followed.

However,

If i were to sell such an adapter and provide full disclosure on the assembly and a no liability disclaimer, i feel like the seller is in the clear and it is the recipient's responsibility to use and connect the assembly properly and to not exceed the max load capable of the assembly.

When purchasing an extension cord from any retailer, the purchaser is given a max rating in the instructions for the cord and its up to the buyer to use the cord responsibly and place under a load that does not exceed its capability. If you fried any cord manufacturers cord or exceeded its capacity and that damaged your equipment, that company themselves are not liable or responsible for the damage to your equipment or personnel-(God Forbid).

It can very easily be argued that the assembly was not used in accordance with that companies instructions for that cord assembly. Like i said before there are a lot of grey areas when it comes to custom power cord assembly and why UL will absolutely not list anything but a cord assembly that is the same volt, amp, and pole count on both sides of the assembly.

If there are companies selling assemblies that start dropping legs or going from three to four pole and stuff like that, UL wants nothing to do with it and encourages people to stay away from such things because they are not "Listable"
Anybody selling such configurations and claiming that it is a "UL Listed" product is Fraudulently selling that assembly.

When a customer of such an assembly is made aware that it is not a "UL Listed" assembly and purchases the assembly with that knowledge, the manufacturer should give instructions and ratings for the assemblies and if they are exceeded or if failure occurs due to misuse, that company should not be held liable. If it can be proven that the assembly was wired incorrectly however i would expect that any respectable seller will accept the responsibility and compensate accordingly.

Disclaimers have a purpose, having a product listed just means you have even more backup to your disclaimer, you have the standards widely accepted for other similar products on your side also.

 

[JDBrown]

When a customer of such an assembly is made aware that it is not a "UL Listed" assembly and purchases the assembly with that knowledge, the manufacturer should give instructions and ratings for the assemblies and if they are exceeded or if failure occurs due to misuse, that company should not be held liable. If it can be proven that the assembly was wired incorrectly however i would expect that any respectable seller will accept the responsibility and compensate accordingly.

I am not a lawyer, but I think the word "should" is the key here. I'm not sure how things work out in North Carolina, but around here I doubt this type of disclaimer would matter much in court. It's relatively simple for a lawyer to argue that you, as an electrical professional, should have known that your cord assembly was dangerous, while his layman client didn't really understand your supposed explanation of the dangers. Doesn't really matter if it's true or not, as long as he can convince a judge/jury.

But maybe I'm just overly cautious, being from California and all. I remember when my kids started taking Brazilian Jiu Jitsu lessons a few years ago, their teacher had us sign a disclaimer saying we won't sue him if our child gets hurt. He then explained, "I have to have you sign the release of liability to keep the insurance company happy, but under California law it's not enforceable. If your kid gets hurt and you decide to sue, there's nothing the insurance company or I can do to stop you."

Now, I'm sure having that signed release of liability will be beneficial to his defense if he ever does get sued. On the other hand, I've seen enough ridiculous rulings when it comes to lawsuits that I'm not too confident that a release of liability would matter in the end.

Bottom line: make sure you're protected, either by the company you work for or, if you're in business for yourself, by a good liability insurance policy and some sort of an LLC so somebody who misused one of your products doesn't end up winning your house in a lawsuit. That's true regardless of what you're making/selling/designing these days.

 

[kwired]

I am not a lawyer, but I think the word "should" is the key here. I'm not sure how things work out in North Carolina, but around here I doubt this type of disclaimer would matter much in court. It's relatively simple for a lawyer to argue that you, as an electrical professional, should have known that your cord assembly was dangerous, while his layman client didn't really understand your supposed explanation of the dangers. Doesn't really matter if it's true or not, as long as he can convince a judge/jury.

But maybe I'm just overly cautious, being from California and all. I remember when my kids started taking Brazilian Jiu Jitsu lessons a few years ago, their teacher had us sign a disclaimer saying we won't sue him if our child gets hurt. He then explained, "I have to have you sign the release of liability to keep the insurance company happy, but under California law it's not enforceable. If your kid gets hurt and you decide to sue, there's nothing the insurance company or I can do to stop you."

Now, I'm sure having that signed release of liability will be beneficial to his defense if he ever does get sued. On the other hand, I've seen enough ridiculous rulings when it comes to lawsuits that I'm not too confident that a release of liability would matter in the end.

Bottom line: make sure you're protected, either by the company you work for or, if you're in business for yourself, by a good liability insurance policy and some sort of an LLC so somebody who misused one of your products doesn't end up winning your house in a lawsuit. That's true regardless of what you're making/selling/designing these days.

If you are breathing - you can be sued for just about anything imaginable, doesn't mean you can't win the lawsuit, but they can sure file a lawsuit. If you are not breathing, your estate, next of kin, etc. is still potentially subjected to such activity on your behalf. Only true winners in any lawsuit though are the attorneys:happyyes: