Randy Kellum
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- Houston, Tx USA
Is a UL listed electrical enclosure automatically qualified for CSA, or does one have to get the CSA listing even though the requirements are identical?
UL vs CSA recriprocal listing
- Thread starter Randy Kellum
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petersonra
Senior Member
- Location
- Northern illinois
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- engineer
The enclosures designed for the industrial market place that I use are marked as both UL and CSA listed. UL and CSA have entered into an agreement where there is a CUL mark that indicates something that is both UL and CSA listed.
I don't know if it is "automatic" or if the manufacturer has to pay extra to get the CUL mark.
I suspect there are some parts that are both UL and CSA listed to different standards, but I do not think industrial enclosures is one of them.
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- Location
- San Francisco Bay Area, CA, USA
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- Electrical Engineer
The listing process is for the most part the same, but there are slight differences. Anything that needs to be installed in Canada must be tested to meet Canadian safety standards, regardless of whether or not they meet standards elsewhere, such as UL. If you are using equipment in the US, then we have a slightly different requirement; that equipment be listed by any NRTL, Nationally Recognized Testing Lab. UL is the most common and well known one, but CSA is also acceptable anywhere as well, with or without the UL mark. We are a little more open about it, or maybe I should say we are a little less anal about it than the Canadians.
One such difference that I am (painfully) aware of with regard to enclosures is that UL allows for grounding of the door to be accomplished via the metal-to-metal contact of the hinge(s), CSA does not, you must use a grounding wire or strap. Typically if the enclosure is made here in the US, i.e. Hoffman, then the ground wire/strap is included in the box and in the instructions it will tell you to install it (if it is not already there) for use in Canada. If the enclosure is made in Canada, i.e. Hammond, then I have noticed that the ground wire comes installed, because UL doesn't really care if it is there, they just say it isn't necessary.
So for using an enclosure in Canada, the enclosure needs to be specifically acceptable to Canadian standards, as measured by either a CSA label, or a UL labels that indicates that it was tested to Canadian standards.
The label would say cULus if it is made for both the US and Canada.
If the label says CUL or ULc, that is ONLY for Canada, if the label says only UL, it is NOT listed for use in Canada.
But as Bob pointed out, 99.9% of industrial enclosures now are going to have the combined listing, the cULus.
One such difference that I am (painfully) aware of with regard to enclosures is that UL allows for grounding of the door to be accomplished via the metal-to-metal contact of the hinge(s), CSA does not, you must use a grounding wire or strap. Typically if the enclosure is made here in the US, i.e. Hoffman, then the ground wire/strap is included in the box and in the instructions it will tell you to install it (if it is not already there) for use in Canada. If the enclosure is made in Canada, i.e. Hammond, then I have noticed that the ground wire comes installed, because UL doesn't really care if it is there, they just say it isn't necessary.
So for using an enclosure in Canada, the enclosure needs to be specifically acceptable to Canadian standards, as measured by either a CSA label, or a UL labels that indicates that it was tested to Canadian standards.
The label would say cULus if it is made for both the US and Canada.
If the label says CUL or ULc, that is ONLY for Canada, if the label says only UL, it is NOT listed for use in Canada.
But as Bob pointed out, 99.9% of industrial enclosures now are going to have the combined listing, the cULus.
- Location
- Mission Viejo, CA
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- Professional Electrical Engineer
:bye:
While I agree with most of the post, it isn't entirely true. This thread, starting at Post 4, is an example.
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- San Francisco Bay Area, CA, USA
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- Electrical Engineer
OK, I believe you. Classified areas are often a whole different ballgame for sure, on more fronts than just that.
I was referring to general electrical equipment, failed to specify that.
- Location
- Mission Viejo, CA
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- Professional Electrical Engineer
Basically, a simple CSA mark is not NRTL as far as FedOSHA is concerned. But I can't imagine a typical "ordinary location" enclosure without dual certification either.
- Location
- San Francisco Bay Area, CA, USA
- Occupation
- Electrical Engineer
- Location
- Mission Viejo, CA
- Occupation
- Professional Electrical Engineer
Yes - so? I didn't say CSA wasn't a NRTL; I said a simple CSA mark doesn't indicate the product was a NRTL mark acceptable to FedOSHA. These are the typical FedOSHA NRTL marks that indicate a product has been certified to an American National Safety Standard.
Not all NRTLs are permitted to certify everything either. For example, Curtis Strauss can only certify five classes of equipment. Outside UL, CSA does have the broadest scope , but it isn't universal. Other NRTL scopes may be found from links on this page.
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- Placerville, CA, USA
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- Retired PV System Designer
The simple presence of the CSA mark does not, by itself, indicate what standard the device was tested against. That will potentially change from one country of use to another, requiring the same NRTL to test against different standards to, for example, add the US designation to the mark.
petersonra
Senior Member
- Location
- Northern illinois
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- engineer
an explanation of various UL marks.
http://www.ul.com/global/eng/pages/corporate/aboutul/ulmarks/mark/marks-for-north-america/
I did not realize there were so many.
I had thought the CUL mark was both, but it turns out the CULUS mark is both, as another poster mentioned. One learns something new everyday.
http://www.ul.com/global/eng/pages/corporate/aboutul/ulmarks/mark/marks-for-north-america/
I did not realize there were so many.
I had thought the CUL mark was both, but it turns out the CULUS mark is both, as another poster mentioned. One learns something new everyday.
- Location
- San Francisco Bay Area, CA, USA
- Occupation
- Electrical Engineer
I had thought so too, because it used to be that way. It changed a few years ago.
- Location
- San Francisco Bay Area, CA, USA
- Occupation
- Electrical Engineer
Unless you are a UL listed electrical enclosure fabricator, you cannot. You can contact one though, they MIGHT be persuaded to help you out.
But why do you need to do this? Did the cover rust out or was it damaged? Can't you call the enclosure mfr to buy a replacement?
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