Installing a sub panel outside on a post about a 100' from the source. Do I need a main breaker ? It is a16 circuit main lug sub panel. Another question is model manufactured homes need temporary power in a sales lot just to run lights. Can I just feed the homes with a 20 A circuit to each home? Thanks for any input
Main breaker needed?
- Thread starter elecmen
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texie
Senior Member
- Location
- Fort Collins, Colorado
- Occupation
- Electrician, Contractor, Inspector
I would agree. While it has been debated many times about the definition of a structure, IMO this is and would require a MB. It will also need a GES.
I seem to recall that the 2014 NEC has made some clarification here, but I think this install would still be a "structure".
Personally I always like to include a main in a subpanel as it is a very quick way to disconnect a panel should there be an event on a branch where you can't identify that branch circuit quick enough and most people can identify a main breaker quickly.
If the additional cost of the main breaker becomes an issue then omit it BC should it be allowed by the NEC.
Thanks for the replies a main will be installed. Does the temp mobile home install need a disconnect within 30' of the home even if it's only temp in a sales lot?
How do you plan to provide overload protection for that 30' of cable to the home. I understand that it is cable that you own and not owned by a utility.
The cable would be protected by the breaker that feeds it in the sub panel. The question was do I still need to have this sub panel (disconnect) within 30' of the home it serves even if its temporarally set up in a sales lot?
jumper
Senior Member
- Location
- 3 Hr 2 Min from Winged Horses
The thirty foot disconnect rule applies to service feeders. I would say that a simple snap switch at or in the manufactured home would seem to be fine as a disconnect for the temporary lighting branch circuit.
The sub panel need not be within thirty feet.
Very often a one line diagram is much more descriptive that a verbal description which is more prone than not to misinterpretation.
You said manufactured homes... not mobile homes. The 30' rule doesn't apply to manufactured homes.
hurk27
Senior Member
- Location
- Portage, Indiana NEC: 2008
Errr
The two are one in the same and both are covered by 550 in the NEC, see 550.2 for the definition for manufactured homes/mobile.
The only difference is back before June 15, 1986 they were referred to as mobile homes, on that date when HUD took over controlling the standards of manufacturing a mobile home they also change the reference to what they are called to manufactured homes, by federal law it also removed the ability of most local jurisdictions from over riding the HUD requirement of the design and codes in 550 of the NEC does not apply to what HUD covers, the code that is followed for them is CFR 24 3280 and the electrical is in 3280.800 which is all available online if you Google it.
An interesting aspect of 3280 is its on a 10 year cycle and before they adopted the 2005 NEC in 2006 with amendments it was on the 1993 NEC
Since this is not a unit to be used as a home while on display, I don't see any problem with a single branch circuit temping the panel in the trailer to supply the lights as long as other parts of the code is followed to protect this branch circuit, also I would keep all the other breakers off so visitors don't try to turn on appliances or other things.
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kwired
Electron manager
- Location
- NE Nebraska
That is how I look at it, it is nothing more than display merchandise in a way. Protect the supply conductors at or below their rated ampacity, the more load you wish to run the better it would be to increase the supply circuit accordingly, but nothing should require you to use the full capabilities of what is actually in the home.
Ummm...
The definition of manufactured home states in part, "For the purpose of this Code and unless otherwise indicated, the term mobile home includes manufactured homes." Now refer to the titles of 550.32(A) & (B). I take this to be "otherwise indicated".
AFAIK, electrical supply to a manufactured home is still under AHJ purview. I'm sure you will correct me if I am wrong.
kwired
Electron manager
- Location
- NE Nebraska
And the temporary use is not as a dwelling.
jumper
Senior Member
- Location
- 3 Hr 2 Min from Winged Horses
Yeppers. A temp branch circuit only.
I agree, but I don't see how it matters.
kwired
Electron manager
- Location
- NE Nebraska
So you are saying this temp feed for display purposes is supposed to be able to carry items like electric range, washer/dryer, possibly a water heater (even though there likely is no water connected to the house), other connected appliances, and 3 VA per square foot, even though this is not going to be used as a dwelling during the time it is displayed, and many of the items I just mentioned will not be used during this time either?
If 20 amps will handle all the lighting and nothing else is intended to be used what will it hurt to supply with a 20 amp circuit? Should someone decide to run too much load for some reason the worst thing that happens is you trip the feeder overcurrent protection and learn that it was not set up to run that much load.
No... that is not what I'm saying.
I'm saying it is a temporary supply with a specific purpose. Take for example the construction phase of a typical house. Do you provide power for all that stuff during construction? I consider these manufactured homes to still be in the "construction" stage, i.e. they are yet to be actual dwellings. So the dwelling issue is moot.
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