HomeInspectorKenton
Member
- Location
- Boulder, Colorado
Bonding a panel from the grounding bus bar acceptable?
- Thread starter HomeInspectorKenton
- Start date
- Status
- Occupation
- Licensed Electrician
I can't tell from the photos if that is a sup-panel or not.
Also can't tell if that is a Cutler Hammer BR panel, if it is then the two bars are linked behind the bussing.
Also can't tell if that is a Cutler Hammer BR panel, if it is then the two bars are linked behind the bussing.
petersonra
Senior Member
- Location
- Northern illinois
- Occupation
- engineer
IMO.
The black wire at the top of the ground bar is a violation.
There is no violation in running a wire from the ground bar to the pan.
Whether the N needs to be bonded or not is something that we cannot tell from the pictures.
There are 4 black wires coming in. One should be green or bare, and one should be white unless they are #4 or larger and are allowed to be marked as ground and N by strips of tape.
The black wire at the top of the ground bar is a violation.
There is no violation in running a wire from the ground bar to the pan.
Whether the N needs to be bonded or not is something that we cannot tell from the pictures.
There are 4 black wires coming in. One should be green or bare, and one should be white unless they are #4 or larger and are allowed to be marked as ground and N by strips of tape.
- Location
- New Jersey
- Occupation
- Journeyman Electrician
If the two buses are separate, then the GEC needs to connect to the neutral bus not the EGC bus.
petersonra
Senior Member
- Location
- Northern illinois
- Occupation
- engineer
is there a GEC coming in? I just cannot tell.
- Location
- New Jersey
- Occupation
- Journeyman Electrician
VA Jim
New User
- Location
- Manassas, VA, USA
It looks like the Lug at the top of the neutral bar has the hole that a bond screw would normally run through, I can see a wire with green tape, similar to the taping on the others, I zoomed in on the picture, it does come in with the others goes to top right side, along top, and down on left to ground bar, where the #3 arrow is. There is also a Bare #4 or #6 ? coming in from the bottom right to the bottom of the ground bar. I would be concerned that this is a sub-panel and has ground rods ( bare) and has a ground run with feeders. Bottom line is, I agree that more info is required, is it a sub-panel?, point of service?, Did an Inspector request the grounding be done this way? What kind of panel is it? It almost looks like the screw/ wire coming off the ground bar to the enclosure is to ground the can, due to how the ground bar is mounted. All that typing, and I still feel like I was no help.
kwired
Electron manager
- Location
- NE Nebraska
First question is whether this is a service or a feeder supplied panel?
Since there are 4 conductors in the supply it is probably a feeder, and the grounded conductor should not be bonded to anything else beyond the service disconnect.
If it is service equipment, why do we have a fourth conductor? It would be creating a parallel with the neutral and presenting us with other potential violations.
If this is not the service equipment or the main disconnecting means of a building or structure supplied by a feeder, or the first disconnecting means of a separately derived system, it does not need a GEC run to it. If this panel (with a separate EGC supplying it) does have a GEC run to it for any reason though, it lands on the EGC and not the grounded conductor bus.
Since there are 4 conductors in the supply it is probably a feeder, and the grounded conductor should not be bonded to anything else beyond the service disconnect.
If it is service equipment, why do we have a fourth conductor? It would be creating a parallel with the neutral and presenting us with other potential violations.
If this is not the service equipment or the main disconnecting means of a building or structure supplied by a feeder, or the first disconnecting means of a separately derived system, it does not need a GEC run to it. If this panel (with a separate EGC supplying it) does have a GEC run to it for any reason though, it lands on the EGC and not the grounded conductor bus.
kwired
Electron manager
- Location
- NE Nebraska
I think it is a Siemens panel.
- Occupation
- Licensed Electrician
You may be right. I can't zoom in.
What ever it is it looks better than the panels I saw on my trip to Mexico.
petersonra
Senior Member
- Location
- Northern illinois
- Occupation
- engineer
maybe it is the service point the 4th wire coming in is the GEC. If so, shouldn't the conduit there be bonded?
- Location
- Tennessee NEC:2017
- Occupation
- Semi-Retired Electrician
My guess (educated) is this is a sub panel given that the grounds and neutrals are separate. Also because of the 4th (EGC) that is run with the feeders.
As such, the install is correct (assuming the bonding jumper is sized correctly).
The ground bus should bond to the cabinet and the neutral left floating.
As such, the install is correct (assuming the bonding jumper is sized correctly).
The ground bus should bond to the cabinet and the neutral left floating.
petersonra
Senior Member
- Location
- Northern illinois
- Occupation
- engineer
The OP asked a simple question that morphed into something not all that simple.
kwired
Electron manager
- Location
- NE Nebraska
He has left out some important details, we must know if this is a service or feeder, or the first disconnect of a separately derived system. Depending on that answer there could be a few more details needed.
petersonra
Senior Member
- Location
- Northern illinois
- Occupation
- engineer
a good example of why it is considered bad form to help DIYers here who just do not know all the questions, much less the answers.
kwired
Electron manager
- Location
- NE Nebraska
True, but there are many professionals that seem to lack the training you would hope they would have had also.
petersonra
Senior Member
- Location
- Northern illinois
- Occupation
- engineer
I suspect the main thing between professionals and others is that professionals tend to know what they don't know and are pretty good at learning what they don't know when needed. The amateurs do not know enough to know how little they know.
kwired
Electron manager
- Location
- NE Nebraska
I know you knew I knew what you knew...:lol:
- Status