Plasticizers are oily like substance which can ooze out of wires, WOW!

[ssynoground]

I had a service call and found the oily substance covering SQD Smart breakers and a Powerlink Module which caused me to investigate and look to this forum for some answers.
I have read a thread about the plasticizers leeching out of the conductors on this forum. What are the properties of these plastisizers? Are they conductive? Will the insulation become useless by these exiting plasticizers? Below is a quote from one of the links I found on this forum.

"Thermoplastic insulations, such as PVC, can have plasticizer migrate between the conductor and insulation. Plasticizer may drip from conductor ends onto electrical equipment and compromise the equipment if incompatible. This change also removes the incorrect term ?electroendosmosis?. Plasticizer migration is not an electrical phenomenon and is not limited to dc circuits or wet locations."

Beware of the leaven.

 

[StarCat]

Old Wire Oooze....

Old Wire Oooze....

I responded on a Chiller Down call one morning, it should have been routine 123 find the problem and proceed.
Negative.
This is a Carrier 30HS series unit, probably installed in the 1950s.
I start going through the controls to seee why this unit is not coming up.
At a glance, everything says it should be running, then readings start getting strange, not adding up.
Some power " seems " where it is supposed to be in the chain....some is " not quite."
In the HVAC world, I start as we say getting run round the bend......
This is a 208V machine with separate 120V control circuit.
Ok, she's dropping the neutral in some areas of the control section.
There is this very very tenacious green slime that has created a dielectric barrier in key areas of the Neutral distribution network within the machine control panel. It seems to be related to the wiring insulation, but also cupric oxide. Once this happens to the wire, its very difficult to bring it back, and the terminal blocks were equally hard to clean. Possibly Acetone would have been the best solvent.

 

[kwired]

I had a service call and found the oily substance covering SQD Smart breakers and a Powerlink Module which caused me to investigate and look to this forum for some answers.
I have read a thread about the plasticizers leeching out of the conductors on this forum. What are the properties of these plastisizers? Are they conductive? Will the insulation become useless by these exiting plasticizers? Below is a quote from one of the links I found on this forum.

"Thermoplastic insulations, such as PVC, can have plasticizer migrate between the conductor and insulation. Plasticizer may drip from conductor ends onto electrical equipment and compromise the equipment if incompatible. This change also removes the incorrect term ?electroendosmosis?. Plasticizer migration is not an electrical phenomenon and is not limited to dc circuits or wet locations."

Beware of the leaven.

When I have seen symptoms like you described it was usually pulling lubricant that was used when the conductors were installed, and a vertical raceway above the equipment. The lubricant "drained" out of the raceway over time and ends up all over the breaker or other equipment at the conductor termination.

 

[ssynoground]

What I was referring to actually came out of the insulation. It is not a product of the enviromental elements. it seems more like a manufatcturing flaw.

There is this very very tenacious green slime that has created a dielectric barrier in key areas of the Neutral distribution network within the machine control panel. It seems to be related to the wiring insulation, but also cupric oxide. Once this happens to the wire, its very difficult to bring it back, and the terminal blocks were equally hard to clean. Possibly Acetone would have been the best solvent.

 

[ssynoground]

When I have seen symptoms like you described it was usually pulling lubricant that was used when the conductors were installed, and a vertical raceway above the equipment. The lubricant "drained" out of the raceway over time and ends up all over the breaker or other equipment at the conductor termination.

This is plasticizer. I have worked in the Sothwire plant in Carrolton, GA and can testify without any doubts, that the plasticizer substance smells just like the Southwire plant. Not to mention, no oily substance is inside the conduit, or on the outside of the wires, and no lube was needed because it is just a 18-inch nipple between the wire trough and panel.

 

[gar]

131021-1021 EDT

See http://www.pvc.org/en/p/plasticisers .

My experience with PVC on LVDT cables was that the machine hydraulic oil dripping on the cable leached the plasticiser from the PVC and made the cable rock hard. Thus, cable failure. Teflon cable does not have a plasticiser so I switched to Teflon.

.

 

[gadfly56]

I responded on a Chiller Down call one morning, it should have been routine 123 find the problem and proceed.
Negative.
This is a Carrier 30HS series unit, probably installed in the 1950s.
I start going through the controls to seee why this unit is not coming up.
At a glance, everything says it should be running, then readings start getting strange, not adding up.
Some power " seems " where it is supposed to be in the chain....some is " not quite."
In the HVAC world, I start as we say getting run round the bend......
This is a 208V machine with separate 120V control circuit.
Ok, she's dropping the neutral in some areas of the control section.
There is this very very tenacious green slime that has created a dielectric barrier in key areas of the Neutral distribution network within the machine control panel. It seems to be related to the wiring insulation, but also cupric oxide. Once this happens to the wire, its very difficult to bring it back, and the terminal blocks were equally hard to clean. Possibly Acetone would have been the best solvent.

"Brasso" and a toothbrush. Acetone could have been worse than useless; it could attack any insulation it comes in contact with depending on its composition.

 

[GoldDigger]

"Brasso" and a toothbrush. Acetone could have been worse than useless; it could attack any insulation it comes in contact with depending on its composition.

General principle: Anything that dissolves plastcizer will be bad for insulation that still has the plasticizdr in the right place.
Second question: Should the wire replaced under those circumstances? Presumably it was defective or subjected to a bad environment.

 

[bward]

Schneider has released a bulletin on this problem:

Oily Residue Found in Electrical Distribution and Control Equipment
http://static.schneider-electric.us/docs/Electrical Distribution/0110DB0301.pdf

 

[ssynoground]

Schneider has released a bulletin on this problem:

Oily Residue Found in Electrical Distribution and Control Equipment
http://static.schneider-electric.us/docs/Electrical Distribution/0110DB0301.pdf

Thanks for the link. I will try and get more answers from Southwire and/or other locations.

 

[StarCat]

Check

Check

10-4 on Acetone being a plastic solvent. The trick then was getting the old wire stripped and to clean copper. I recall using contact cleaner which was somewhat adequate.

 

[StarCat]

And

And

10-4 on Acetone being a plastic solvent. The trick then was getting the old wire stripped and to clean copper. I recall using contact cleaner which was somewhat adequate.

Getting the terminal strip clean we well.

 

[kbsparky]

Had a similar thing happen with romex. Green "slime" oozing out of the receptacle outlets.

The customer had converted a room into a beauty shop. I was wondering if any of those chemicals she used helped to cause this to occur?

 

[Jraef]

The plasticizers used in PVC wire insulation to make it flexible are not conductive (obviously). The oozing, or "migration" of it is something that just seems to happen with age, heat and humidity, not necessarily because of exposure to solvent chemicals. Luckily it does not happen very often, but nobody is exactly sure yet why that is (as far as I have heard). There are several different types of plasticizers, called "pthalates" used in various compounds by different mfrs, the suspected cause is that it may be related to which compounds the different wire mfrs use, with the general consensus being that the cheaper the wire, the more likely the mfr used cheaper compounds. I don't think anyone has proved that yet though.

The bad things that happen as a result of migration are a loss of flexibility of the wire insulation, which can lead to cracking and exposure to leaking, and the goo itself tends to get all over terminations because that's where it leaks out around the stripping of the insulation done to terminate. We just went through a huge issue on this where large contactors were failing early on a specific machine built by an OEM. The investigation turned up that plasticizers in the wire they used migrated out of the terminated ends and essentially attacked the resin used in the contactor bodies over the course of about 5 years. It weakened them, which lead to cracking and separation of power terminal mounting devices embedded in the phenolic wherever the plasticizers were found. The machinse involved very high heat, and the only times where the plasticizers migrated were when the machines were used in tropical countries, so high humidity.

So although it will not itself cause shorts by being conductive, it can still lead to equipment failure and there is no effective means of cleaning it, because the same thing you would use to clean it will attack the wire insulation that remains, as well as possibly the other polyester resin based materials like phenolic, which is in virtually all electrical equipment.

 

[Davebones]

Remember back in the early 90's being in Crystal River CR3 Nuclear plant they were going thru the MCC buckets and I think they had the Electricians go thru and replace wiring in them . Remember the term " Green Slime " . I wasn't on this project and don't recall the issues they might of had . This was before they went and broke the plant !

 

[djohns6]

I've found this goop to be very common on Westinghouse products control wiring .

 

[Jraef]

I've found this goop to be very common on Westinghouse products control wiring .

Makes sense considering that the Westinghouse name hasn't gone on a control device now for almost 20 years.

 

[djohns6]

Makes sense considering that the Westinghouse name hasn't gone on a control device now for almost 20 years.

Westinghouse electromechanical relays ( Type KD , SDG , KC-4 , etc. ) are commonly found with the green goo on the internal wiring and the FT case " knife blades " . Westinghouse power transformers are subject to getting the goo on the fan control circuits and the Tap Changer controls . I see it all the time and have found relays that were inoperative due to the contamination . All of this equipment is circa 1960's and 70's .

 

[Climbnguy]

I know this is an old thread but here goes. I have run into a situation in a 25 year old R&D building. Several of the panels are experiencing this problem from mild to severe. I am getting ready to replace 4 of the panels and I'm wondering if there might be a way to seal the ends of the existing THHN cable to limit the plasticizer migration on to the new equipment instead of pulling the cable completely out and replacing it.

 

[ptonsparky]

I know this is an old thread but here goes. I have run into a situation in a 25 year old R&D building. Several of the panels are experiencing this problem from mild to severe. I am getting ready to replace 4 of the panels and I'm wondering if there might be a way to seal the ends of the existing THHN cable to limit the plasticizer migration on to the new equipment instead of pulling the cable completely out and replacing it.

My thoughts would be to replace the wires with new or cut them back and splice on new to extend to your equipment.