Gas station generators...........

[chevyx92]

Why aren't there standby generators installed at gas stations for backup power? I have never seen a standby generator at a gas station in any state I have been in. Have any of you guys seen any? Wouldn't you think that in an event such as a power outage that that would be a time when people would need gas?

 

[GoldDigger]

Why aren't there standby generators installed at gas stations for backup power? I have never seen a standby generator at a gas station in any state I have been in. Have any of you guys seen any? Wouldn't you think that in an event such as a power outage that that would be a time when people would need gas?

Possibly the hoops they would have to jump through to get them installed and wired up given the gas fume concerns (Classified area plus special rules for fuel dispensing?) make it prohibitively expensive?

 

[texie]

Why aren't there standby generators installed at gas stations for backup power? I have never seen a standby generator at a gas station in any state I have been in. Have any of you guys seen any? Wouldn't you think that in an event such as a power outage that that would be a time when people would need gas?

Actually this is becoming very common in many coastal areas.

Miami-Dade County (Miami metro) even has requirements for many stations to have backup power: http://miamidade.fl.eregulations.us/code/rule/ord_ptiii_ch8b_8b-16?selectdate=

I've done a number of them.

 

[hurk27]

Possibly the hoops they would have to jump through to get them installed and wired up given the gas fume concerns (Classified area plus special rules for fuel dispensing?) make it prohibitively expensive?

And cars pulling up to the pumps have no problems?

The boundary is only 10' around the dispensers I think, A generator in the back of a station would not be a problem.

We have two gas station here with generator backups

 

[iwire]

And cars pulling up to the pumps have no problems?

Stop that!

Logic has no place here.


That said ......... I can't think of any gas stations around me with generators other than municipal ones for the Fire Dept, Police Dept, DPW etc.

My guess is that the margins are so darn slim on gas sales that the installation and upkeep of generators makes it unattractive to the owners of the stations. Its not like they could jack the price up during a power failure.

 

[GoldDigger]

Stop that!

Logic has no place here.


That said ......... I can't think of any gas stations around me with generators other than municipal ones for the Fire Dept, Police Dept, DPW etc.

My guess is that the margins are so darn slim on gas sales that the installation and upkeep of generators makes it unattractive to the owners of the stations. Its not like they could jack the price up during a power failure.

Add a fuel surcharge for running the generator, like the airlines do when the can't raise their prices?

 

[Mgraw]

Actually this is becoming very common in many coastal areas.

Miami-Dade County (Miami metro) even has requirements for many stations to have backup power: http://miamidade.fl.eregulations.us/code/rule/ord_ptiii_ch8b_8b-16?selectdate=

I've done a number of them.

Louisiana has a law that requires all stations built on hurricane evacuation routes since Katrina have a generator

 

[iwire]

Add a fuel surcharge for running the generator, like the airlines do when the can't raise their prices?

Click the link, scroll down to Massachusetts. http://knowledgeproblem.com/2012/11/03/list-of-price-gouging-laws/

 

[lakee911]

My guess is that the margins are so darn slim on gas sales that the installation and upkeep of generators makes it unattractive to the owners of the stations.

Agreed.

Its not like they could jack the price up during a power failure.

Add a fuel surcharge for running the generator, like the airlines do when the can't raise their prices?

Probably doesn't happen often enough in most places to cover the cost of the capital.

 

[mgookin]

In Florida the gas stations along hurricane evacuation routes are required to have standby power.

 

[hurk27]

Stop that!

Logic has no place here.

Scary an't it

 

[iwire]

Regarding the areas that have laws requiring generators at gas stations.

To me that is a bit disturbing and really sounds like the govt going to far unless the govt is going to pick up the costs.

I fully understand why they think it is a good idea but to me it sounds unfair to the owners of the stations.

 

[lakee911]

Regarding the areas that have laws requiring generators at gas stations.

To me that is a bit disturbing and really sounds like the govt going to far unless the govt is going to pick up the costs.

I fully understand why they think it is a good idea but to me it sounds unfair to the owners of the stations.

I was thinking the EXACT same thing....didn't want to post it and start something, but since you did, I'll comment on it. It's one thing to make certain things code (like seismic requirements) that ensure safety, but here we're just burdening the owner with additional expenses. Does the law say that they're unable to close during a hurricane evacuation because what good is a genny if the store is closed?

 

[kwired]

Regarding the areas that have laws requiring generators at gas stations.

To me that is a bit disturbing and really sounds like the govt going to far unless the govt is going to pick up the costs.

I fully understand why they think it is a good idea but to me it sounds unfair to the owners of the stations.

Believe it or not - I agree with you.

Government has no business in making requirements like this. Just because they have a generator at the business, do they require them to also be open for business during such conditions? Essential services places is understandable.

Such laws turn an optional standby system into a legally required standby system when it comes to NEC or other codes also.

 

[JDBrown]

Believe it or not - I agree with you.

Government has no business in making requirements like this. Just because they have a generator at the business, do they require them to also be open for business during such conditions? Essential services places is understandable.

Such laws turn an optional standby system into a legally required standby system when it comes to NEC or other codes also.

While I agree with you guys in principle (I tend to think we've got far too many laws already), I think I can see where they're coming from with this. I mean, it's kind of hard to evacuate hundreds of thousands of people out of the path of a hurricane if there's no fuel available for their vehicles. What are they going to do, walk from Louisiana to Texas (or whatever)? Just a guess, but I think this might be the rationale behind these laws.

kwired, that's an interesting point about these systems now being legally required and therefore subject to different NEC requirements; I hadn't even thought of that.

 

[iwire]

While I agree with you guys in principle (I tend to think we've got far too many laws already), I think I can see where they're coming from with this. I mean, it's kind of hard to evacuate hundreds of thousands of people out of the path of a hurricane if there's no fuel available for their vehicles. What are they going to do, walk from Louisiana to Texas (or whatever)? Just a guess, but I think this might be the rationale behind these laws.
.

I think we all understand the need for fuel.

That does not make it right to force a business on one street to purchase and maintain a generator when the same type of bussness a block away does not.

If the Govt feels emergency fuel is needed then they need to absorb the extra costs.

 

[JDBrown]

I think we all understand the need for fuel.

That does not make it right to force a business on one street to purchase and maintain a generator when the same type of bussness a block away does not.

If the Govt feels emergency fuel is needed then they need to absorb the extra costs.

Hey, you'll get no argument from me about that.

 

[mgookin]

The fuel issue arises during the event, not during evacuation. There's almost always fuel for evacuation.

The evacuation routes are the same routes used to come into or back into a region. Every town has evacuation routes. Requiring the standby power along these routes assures each town has fuel available post-disaster.

Fuel is needed for rescue & recovery, much of which is not done by local authorities. You have not only the locals trying to get ice, food, lumber, plastic, etc. but you also have relief agencies and volunteers coming in. Fuel shortages are another accelerator to civil unrest. Having fuel post-disaster is a necessity. I went through Charley, Francis, Ivan, Jean, Rita, Katrina & Wilma. It can and often does take several weeks to restore utility power.

 

[iwire]

The fuel issue arises during the event, not during evacuation. There's almost always fuel for evacuation.

The evacuation routes are the same routes used to come into or back into a region. Every town has evacuation routes. Requiring the standby power along these routes assures each town has fuel available post-disaster.

Fuel is needed for rescue & recovery, much of which is not done by local authorities. You have not only the locals trying to get ice, food, lumber, plastic, etc. but you also have relief agencies and volunteers coming in. Fuel shortages are another accelerator to civil unrest. Having fuel post-disaster is a necessity. I went through Charley, Francis, Ivan, Jean, Rita, Katrina & Wilma. It can and often does take several weeks to restore utility power.

Again, the reasons for needing fuel are pretty evident.

That still does not make it right that a business on an evacuation route is subject to more laws than a business off the route.

If the law is for the good of all than all should pay for it.

 

[kwired]

The guy that runs the small family owned/operated quick shop is going to either:

A:stick around during evacuation because his products are needed and he can make some sales - maybe even more sales than usual.

B: close the doors and get him and his family out of there.