Federal Pacific panel cover (old style)

[AltonToth]

So I have an old Federal Pacific panel in my house (the narrow, split bus, malfunctiony kind). The budget doesn't really exist at this time to replace the panel, besides which the bus and connections seem to allbe fairly good. I AM replacing the breakers, since I've already had one fail to open when manually activated, and several fall out on their own afford. The new breakers certainly fit better, that's for sure. But what I am lacking is a flush mount cover for the panel (hence why the breakers fall out so readily). I've been looking in used building supply places and junk yards, but am having no luck finding one. It appears to be 32 circuits, 10 inches wide by 22 inches tall. If anyone has one kicking around, it pulls these out, it would be amazing if I could buy it off you. It sure bears having one fabricated. thanks!

 

[kwired]

So I have an old Federal Pacific panel in my house (the narrow, split bus, malfunctiony kind). The budget doesn't really exist at this time to replace the panel, besides which the bus and connections seem to allbe fairly good. I AM replacing the breakers, since I've already had one fail to open when manually activated, and several fall out on their own afford. The new breakers certainly fit better, that's for sure. But what I am lacking is a flush mount cover for the panel (hence why the breakers fall out so readily). I've been looking in used building supply places and junk yards, but am having no luck finding one. It appears to be 32 circuits, 10 inches wide by 22 inches tall. If anyone has one kicking around, it pulls these out, it would be amazing if I could buy it off you. It sure bears having one fabricated. thanks!

Why is it you can afford to replace the breakers @ maybe $25 - 30 per single pole and $50 - 75 per double pole but can't afford to replace the panel which likely will cost less? (not considering any AFCI's being installed anyway)

 

[AltonToth]

Because the breakers are actually $11.99-27.99 depending on size and poles (except for the range and dryer ones, which are only a couple years old anyways), versus the $600 for the electrical service permit, plus the cost of the materials to bring the entire service up to modern code (undersized conduit for a mast on a flat roof), plus the fact that even as an electrician, I can't pull a HO permit to do a service change, it has to be a contractor who does it. So yea, notquite so cut and dried to change the panel. I thought about just pulling the meter and changing the panel illegally, but that pretty much screws me over for tenants or selling the place. So that's why I'm not changing the while panel out. if i do decide to change it out in a couple years, I can reuse the breakers in the new panel.

 

[ramsy]

Add subpanel junction / raceway to new meter spot if POCO requires service drop location change.

 

[John120/240]

if i do decide to change it out in a couple years, I can reuse the breakers in the new panel.

If you have ANY plans of replacing this panel in the future go ahead and install a quality brand Today. SQ D-QO or HO, CH-Classic or CH BR, or GE, Thats what I would do.

 

[RLyons]

How much are you guys paying for breakers??? $12-20 for a single pole????
SquareD Homeline's are $4 for a single pole and maybe up to $20 for a 2p 50, Arcs are $40....around here anyway.
Can't make any promises but a saw a few panels laying by the garbage this morning, I'll give a look.
You know FP is bad, right? Or where they not recalled in Canada?

 

[kwired]

Because the breakers are actually $11.99-27.99 depending on size and poles (except for the range and dryer ones, which are only a couple years old anyways), versus the $600 for the electrical service permit, plus the cost of the materials to bring the entire service up to modern code (undersized conduit for a mast on a flat roof), plus the fact that even as an electrician, I can't pull a HO permit to do a service change, it has to be a contractor who does it. So yea, notquite so cut and dried to change the panel. I thought about just pulling the meter and changing the panel illegally, but that pretty much screws me over for tenants or selling the place. So that's why I'm not changing the while panel out. if i do decide to change it out in a couple years, I can reuse the breakers in the new panel.

Your prices for FPE breakers seem to be a steal, but your electrical permit seems to be pretty high, cost of materials to put in a new mast is not all that high (if you use aluminum conductors) and you are supposedly not paying anyone any labor or overhead costs. And where in the world are you getting a new panel that will accept your FPE breakers when you do decide to change it?

I can probably put in a 200 amp mast, meter, and 30 circuit Homeline panel for maybe as little as $400 for materials - assuming no AFCI circuit breakers and a permit fee of $100 to $150 at the most. (If not installing any NEW branch circuits permit fee for a 200 amp service is only $35, it is any new circuits that would raise the fees) For the price I can get FPE replacement breakers I would spend around that much or even more on the breakers alone, and really have no faith in just how protected I am as compared to the Homeline breakers.

 

[zog]

You know FP is bad, right? Or where they not recalled in Canada?

Actually they were never recalled in the US, the only recall was in Canada on Federal Pioneer stab lock. And there is nothing wrong with the replacements available today.

However, any panel 50 years old, regardless of brand, should probally be replaced. Eaton makes a nice panel retrofit for those. (No I don't work for Eaton) http://www.eaton.com/Eaton/Products...cuitBreakers/CHRetrofitInteriorKits/index.htm

 

[kwired]

Eaton makes a nice panel retrofit for those. (No I don't work for Eaton) http://www.eaton.com/Eaton/Products...cuitBreakers/CHRetrofitInteriorKits/index.htm

Next problem, the majority of FPE panels I run into are the narrow cabinet version and are usually filled with the 1/2 inch wide breakers, so you will have a panel that is pretty crowded before even starting.

 

[norcal]

Since the OP is from Canada, Federal-Pioneer circuit breakers may be more reasonable in price compared to FPE replacements in the states, but aren't Canadian panels different then the US models? If this is the case they may have more of a problem finding a replacement, but I am in the "replace the panel" crowd as it's time has passed.

 

[GerryB]

Actually they were never recalled in the US, the only recall was in Canada on Federal Pioneer stab lock. And there is nothing wrong with the replacements available today.

However, any panel 50 years old, regardless of brand, should probally be replaced. Eaton makes a nice panel retrofit for those. (No I don't work for Eaton) http://www.eaton.com/Eaton/Products...cuitBreakers/CHRetrofitInteriorKits/index.htm

My supply house carries this retrofit but the counter man didn't know much about it. I have a job coming up to change a FP panel in a condo. This can be used to change the guts without opening the wall? That would be pretty good. If so have you ever installed one.

 

[junkhound]

However, any panel 50 years old, regardless of brand, should probally be replaced.

Other than to generate new business, WHY? .e.g Square D QO panels are the same as 50 years ago.

Agree that at 40 or 50 years an inspection for any possible corrosion is appropriate, but replacement??

My mothers house is over 120 YO, and the main disconnect (100A fuses) is about 80 YO - 2 years ago when a fuse blew, left the main disconnect in place, simply disassembled and wire brushed to bright copper. The copper in the faying surfaces was still bright, fuses were heating up due to oxidation on the fuse clips. Have needed to replace a few of the 60 YO bulldog pushmatics over the years, but panel still in great shape.

 

[kwired]

My supply house carries this retrofit but the counter man didn't know much about it. I have a job coming up to change a FP panel in a condo. This can be used to change the guts without opening the wall? That would be pretty good. If so have you ever installed one.

I don't have any experience installing those retrofits that CH sells, but like I said earlier you could have space problems with some older compact panels FPE was one that was pretty popular for using 1/2 inch wide breakers even though they also made a 1 inch wide that would fit the same panel. GE was another one that was good at doing that. A 20/40 panel filled with the narrow version breakers may not have room to replace with a 40 circuit retrofit, and wire bending space was either less or was not paid attention to on many older panels either.

 

[RLyons]

Actually they were never recalled in the US, the only recall was in Canada on Federal Pioneer stab lock. And there is nothing wrong with the replacements available today.

However, any panel 50 years old, regardless of brand, should probally be replaced. Eaton makes a nice panel retrofit for those. (No I don't work for Eaton) http://www.eaton.com/Eaton/Products...cuitBreakers/CHRetrofitInteriorKits/index.htm

Recall was the incorrect word???:?
http://www.angieslist.com/articles/your-federal-pacific-circuit-breaker-panel-safe.htm

http://www.nbcbayarea.com/Federal-P...gation-Finds-Decades-of-Danger-171406921.html

http://www.homeinspectormark.com/si...deral_pacific_circuit_breaker_information.pdf

 

[AltonToth]

All the breakers are labelled with the American branding, which I found totally baffling. I know that when the house was built in'83, the panel was already used. It still seems to be quite mechanically solid, lugs are all still tight after 30 years, no scorching, and the new stab-lok beakers I've been snapping on have grabbed quite nicely. Literally my only concern is the narrowwireways. And the missing cover. I know fees seem totally high. I'm inclined to agree but unfortunately to do this change legally I have to play ball. The breaker prices I've been quoting are based on a comparison with Home Depot and Home Hardware, picking the lowest. I haven't bothered checking with the wholesalers, as I'm not sure how much better their prices could be if i don't have an account.

Thanks for the feed back so far guys. Its good even if i can't find a cover, for sounding board purposes. I am in Canada (BC to be exact), in a semi-rural area where the electrical stuff is provincial, not municipal.