K8MHZ
Senior Member
- Occupation
- Electrician
A guy I know bought some of these to put up in his house. He had torn the ceiling off and was intending to use these for what really amounts to 'new construction' as the ceiling was stripped.
View attachment 9610
My first thought was 'how is one supposed to mount the j-box?' Well, according to design, all that holds the box is that flimsy little arm attached to the light, which is held into the drywall by the clips you see on the light shroud.
I asked to look at the instructions and found that the box is meant to come out of the hole with the light in order to gain access to the connections in it. Yeah, right. The arm holding the box wasn't much stronger than a piece of 12 AWG NMB. If it survived being pulled out for access, how fun is that going to be if the NMS is secured properly?
So I looked at the instructions again, and they stated that the j-box on the light must be connected using a flexible cable. The light I actually saw was nearly, but not quite identical to the one above, so just for fun I checked the instructions on line for the one in the picture. It says you need to leave at least 18 extra inches of cable to be, I guess, coiled up and stuffed into the ceiling so it would be long enough to get the box out to work on.
So, here are some questions.
1) If I look up 'flexible cable' in the NEC, it directs me to 'flexible cords' and I was of the understanding that such cords were not allowed to be concealed. Am I correct?
2) The 'electrician' at Menards told the guy the 'flexible cable' meant 'Romex'. No way will you be able to get the fixture out if secured within 12" of the box. There is an allowance of up to 4 1/2 feet for 'accessible ceilings'. Is a drywalled ceiling considered to be an accessible ceiling because there is a hole in it?
I told this stuff to my acquaintance and he called Menards and had me talk to their 'electrician'. He assured me everything was kosher and they 'use them all the time'. Finally, after I started asking specific questions about the codes, he told me they did have a version of the same light that used spreader bars and told me he would exchange them for the guy.
So, are my concerns valid? If the light in the pic's j-box is allowed to be installed with no support to the premises and extra 'permanent' wiring stuffed back into the ceiling is required to access the box, a box which is supported by a light just clipped into drywall, that really does illustrate that following the NEC to the letter will result in the worst installation allowed by law.
I also saw a stick-on floor heater at his place and read the instructions. Yikes! But that's enough for an entirely different thread, if he decides to put it in once he realizes what needs to be done and how bad of a day it would be when the unit failed.
View attachment 9610
My first thought was 'how is one supposed to mount the j-box?' Well, according to design, all that holds the box is that flimsy little arm attached to the light, which is held into the drywall by the clips you see on the light shroud.
I asked to look at the instructions and found that the box is meant to come out of the hole with the light in order to gain access to the connections in it. Yeah, right. The arm holding the box wasn't much stronger than a piece of 12 AWG NMB. If it survived being pulled out for access, how fun is that going to be if the NMS is secured properly?
So I looked at the instructions again, and they stated that the j-box on the light must be connected using a flexible cable. The light I actually saw was nearly, but not quite identical to the one above, so just for fun I checked the instructions on line for the one in the picture. It says you need to leave at least 18 extra inches of cable to be, I guess, coiled up and stuffed into the ceiling so it would be long enough to get the box out to work on.
So, here are some questions.
1) If I look up 'flexible cable' in the NEC, it directs me to 'flexible cords' and I was of the understanding that such cords were not allowed to be concealed. Am I correct?
2) The 'electrician' at Menards told the guy the 'flexible cable' meant 'Romex'. No way will you be able to get the fixture out if secured within 12" of the box. There is an allowance of up to 4 1/2 feet for 'accessible ceilings'. Is a drywalled ceiling considered to be an accessible ceiling because there is a hole in it?
I told this stuff to my acquaintance and he called Menards and had me talk to their 'electrician'. He assured me everything was kosher and they 'use them all the time'. Finally, after I started asking specific questions about the codes, he told me they did have a version of the same light that used spreader bars and told me he would exchange them for the guy.
So, are my concerns valid? If the light in the pic's j-box is allowed to be installed with no support to the premises and extra 'permanent' wiring stuffed back into the ceiling is required to access the box, a box which is supported by a light just clipped into drywall, that really does illustrate that following the NEC to the letter will result in the worst installation allowed by law.
I also saw a stick-on floor heater at his place and read the instructions. Yikes! But that's enough for an entirely different thread, if he decides to put it in once he realizes what needs to be done and how bad of a day it would be when the unit failed.
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