Service call at new resturaunt that had serious issues w/ very poor craftsmanship

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nicknorth

Senior Member
I went out on a service call the other day to a small restaurant that had one of the poorest craftsmanship and overall build out I've seen in a long time. This mall is a nice, larger mall so to see something like this was very disappointing. The mall provides the shell with a 480/277 service to a panel board and then has a ceiling mounted step down transformer to 120/208 200amp panel board, HVAC has gas heating and electric A/C, and a basic bathroom. So you can see the wiring method that was used on the shell which is done very nicely and then you can see the hacks that did the build out. I couldn't believe this was permitted and actually passed any inspections as there was so many issues like: sharing neutrals and indicated in the panel, track lighting was suspended by chain only (so if you tried to put in a light bulb you have 4'+ sections of track swing around) our State enforces energy code and the contractor submitted a energy worksheet for the lighting but what was installed is not even close to the plans and everything had incandescent lamps to boot, M/C cable was not secured in the 2 screw connectors and at one point shorted out and melted through the connector, some residential receptacles where installed (I'm not sure if the code says anything about this, but even if it doesn't come on really??) track lights had the ends cut off and no end caps where installed and the copper leads that run in the track lights are coming out and at one spot about ready to hit some metal bracing, a time-clock was installed most likely for signage but it was basically mounted on the floor on this bump out and you could barely open the door, the existing 480/277 panel before had 6"+ on the side of the cover and now they build a new wall and the cover is basically 1/8" into the drywall which you still can open it after I cut out the paint and crap, but still why?? I know some of these issues might not be a total code violation, but the inspector should of failed them on so many things that are not to code. The owner of the business is willing to pay us to fix all the problems and they need additional circuits added because they only installed 2 - 20amp circuits for all the kitchen appliances that are not built in, but shown on the plans so they are tripping breakers like crazy. Has anyone ever called out the City Inspector and brought up code violations and asked why they passed it off or something like this to hopefully help the business owner get something fixed or get some money back? When I found out what was paid to the GC I about fell over for what was done and I know its between the GC and the EC and the other subs, but how does someone go about addressing this? We don't need GC or EC around that would do this type of work as they cause more issues for the guys that actually care and do decent work and have pride in their work.

This one of my many reason with the Government that issues permits and inspectors that don't do their job one day and then the next day they will beat down/fail a quality install over the dumbest things. I wish the whole permitting process was changed, but that's a whole topic on its own. I would like to hear some feedback from someone that has seem someone deal with something like this in the past or current. Please don't tell me its not my business and this is between the customer and the GC because the customer has hired us to fix the issues and also help consult with all the issues that we are seeing while adding the additional circuits which is basically coming to re-wiring the business.
 

roger

Moderator
Staff member
Location
Fl
Occupation
Retired Electrician
Sounds like work was done without a permit & inspections.
That's what it sounds like to me. I do remember wiring a restaurant once and when we got done and the inspections were signed off the owner started running numerous extension cords above the ceiling the same day to supply neon signs and whatever, we shook our heads and left.

Roger
 

cdslotz

Senior Member
Because it was in a mall, that's all you need to know.
GC's who do mall work (we call them mall rats), travel all over the country doing mall stores.
They roll into town and bid the work out to local EC's...sign up the cheapest guy, knowing he's missing scope...
then push them to get it done in 30 days, then leaves town before the EC has submitted his first invoice.
 

John120/240

Senior Member
Location
Olathe, Kansas
You've got your work cut out for you. Send the inspector a coupon for a eye exam. They advertise all over the radio here.
For a lengthy post like this Please hit the ENTER button to break up your paragraph. Thanks
 

growler

Senior Member
Location
Atlanta,GA
I couldn't believe this was permitted and actually passed any inspections. Has anyone ever called out the City Inspector and brought up code violations and asked why they passed it off or something like this to hopefully help the business owner get something fixed or get some money back?


I would check to make sure that the space was actully permitted and inspected.

You will need a permit to run any new circuits so it would be a good idea to check on any existing permits that may be open. They should have gotten a new certificate of occupancy ( if this is a different type business ) and that may not have happened.
 

cadpoint

Senior Member
Location
Durham, NC
A permited set of contract drawings is what the owner bought, they usually don't buy any
conformance requirements nor required inspections of the job to this set of drawings.

I've heard it many times how my EE friend has said, his plans are just a permit to construct.
You'd probably hear the same from the orginal signee.

Most follow what is implied and restaurants do usually get a good once over, for all inspections in this state.

Jobs can go astray, do go astray, who's fault is it then; the installer for not noting the problems properly, the GC for not being involved, the owner not being hands on? Well you'd expect better but if you'd worked steading in this world you know what's gets handled officially, formerly, and what gets taken care of.

I know the mall up the street uses a certain local firm for all in-house E work, they also get some of the upfits, but not all and a preformance bond is required otherwise; with upfits they even had an outside architect review the plans.

JMO
I understand gross negligence you will not make any friends standing behind this flag.
It's endless... I would not cause ire with-in your inspection world just finish the job and move on. If you care to work with-in whatever your State system provides, go for it.
 

augie47

Moderator
Staff member
Location
Tennessee
Occupation
State Electrical Inspector (Retired)
Unfortunately some of what you describe is what I see 50% of the time when I have an opportunity to inspect shops in our smaller malls.
I like cdslotz's term "mall rats"
 

nicknorth

Senior Member
I know all too much about the mall rats as I have done a lot of mall stores with the GC that are the mall rats, but at least our work was done right and not slop. Yes I know it makes it a lot harder to do quality work when they don't pay anything and rush the jobs, but the mall rats we have mostly worked with in the past have really good plans and they demo everything and we basically start over. This store was not done by one of those mall rats this is worst then what they would of done. The owner of this store has called the City about the permitting because they found that the GC pulled the permits in the owners name after some digging around so I'm not sure what will happen about this, but this way we have nothing to do with bringing up these issues. It's all too easy to become a GC in our State (Washington) all you need is $12,000 bond, $300 something dollar application and insurance and Bam! you are a licensed GC. Just because you have a license doesn't mean that you should pick up a saw. I really wish they would change the rules about all permitting and licensing and I feel that this would change things. Anyways about this job we are going to start in the next week or two once they get things straighten out about the permitting to fix all these issues. I will post some pictures of the work beforehand.
 

petersonra

Senior Member
Location
Northern illinois
Occupation
engineer
rat them out then. it does no good to complain here. file a formal complaint with whomever is the appropriate entity. get the form, fill it in, sign your name to it, and send it in.
 

renosteinke

Senior Member
Location
NE Arkansas
For the past four years, I have drawn attention -at this site and elsewhere- to various 'help wanted' ads where the sponsor appeared to want you only for your license. A typical ad would read something like:

"We build / remodel restaurants for a national chain. We are expanding, building many in your area. We have our own crew. You can work as much, or as little, as you like- but OUR crew will do the job; We only need you to pull permits. You will NOT become a partner or principal in our business."

It sounds like they found someone in your area.

IMO, such schemes are illegal 'license rental' arrangements. IMO, the scheme is set up specifically to circumvent licensing laws - as well as a variety of other liability, construction, and labor laws.

Call your AHJ. Make a formal complaint. Force the AHJ to do his job, shut the place down, and force the work to be corrected. I suspect that after a few such actions the parent companies will stop using these gypsies.
 

ken.kenk

Member
Location
devils lake
Agree

Agree

I have seen installations like described and the first step I have taken is talk to the owner. It ultimately was a business decision to use the contractors that were chosen. The first thing I would do as an inspector/contractor is point to the owner out the code violations and the disregard for NEC 110.12. As inspector I would issue a correction report to the owner to get code corrections completed by an electrical contractor properly licensed in the area. Or as contractor try to upsell my business, do a complete review of the entire space with the owner. It backs down to business decisions on the contractors and owners parts to make the decisions. If that involves making reports to building/electrical inspectors or the owner deciding the Professional Electrical Contractor is looking out for him/her and hires them to fix their issues, or going blind its out of my hands and walk away. Personally I couldn't walk away. I would take the upsell path first and/or make a report either way.
 

Sierrasparky

Senior Member
Location
USA
Occupation
Electrician ,contractor
Hey Yall , Can you hit the return a bit more. Your stuff is very hard to read. :happyno:
 
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