Smoke Detection

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Kihde

Member
Location
Waukesha WI
How to link 50 or more 120volt Smoke Detectors in a mulit-room facility?
on BRK and Kiddie they have limits to how many you can interconnect, any thoughts?
 

gadfly56

Senior Member
Location
New Jersey
Occupation
Professional Engineer, Fire & Life Safety
How to link 50 or more 120volt Smoke Detectors in a mulit-room facility?
on BRK and Kiddie they have limits to how many you can interconnect, any thoughts?

If you wish to be in flagrant violation of NFPA 72, by all means proceed. The limit is 12 smoke alarms in a single dwelling unit. It could be as high as 42 if they were supervised, but no one makes such a system that I am aware of. How exactly is it cheaper to remove existing smoke detectors and run interconnected smoke alarms in addition when you are already putting in a fire alarm system? Without slave labor, I mean.
 

cowboyjwc

Moderator
Staff member
Location
Simi Valley, CA
If you wish to be in flagrant violation of NFPA 72, by all means proceed. The limit is 12 smoke alarms in a single dwelling unit. It could be as high as 42 if they were supervised, but no one makes such a system that I am aware of. How exactly is it cheaper to remove existing smoke detectors and run interconnected smoke alarms in addition when you are already putting in a fire alarm system? Without slave labor, I mean.
That was kind of where I was going after the OP's second comment, but I wasn't sure how to word it. This is close enough. I couldn't understand why you needed a fire alarm system and 120v smoke alarms.
 

kwired

Electron manager
Location
NE Nebraska
We are putting a fire alarm system in already and looking to take the smokes out and replace with 120volt smokes to keep cost down!
A real fire alarm "system" doesn't use 120 volt stand alone/interconnectable "smoke alarms" they are two different animals. I think you may have some confusion of terminology here. When you get to the number of detection units you are talking about, cost of materials may not be as much of a difference as you may think. The true fire alarm system may still have some extra cost involved as it is likely to have stricter design and inspection requirements, and a potentially complex central controller, but can normally use smaller conductors for most of the premises wiring which saves cost from that perspective, and labor from companies that specialize in this is often a little higher - but they know what they are doing and get it right the first time which is usually significant justification in itself.
 

goldstar

Senior Member
Location
New Jersey
Occupation
Electrical Contractor
How to link 50 or more 120volt Smoke Detectors in a mulit-room facility?
on BRK and Kiddie they have limits to how many you can interconnect, any thoughts?
I'm sure many of us here in the Forum can figure out creative ways to link all these devices together as you would like. The short answer is they would all be in violation of not only the NEC but I'm sure local fire & building codes. You might as well get it into your head right off the bat and install a fire alarm system as Kwired pointed out. You'll come out with a better, more reliable system in the long run.

There's also the issue of liability. After you're done twisting this togetrher, installing relays, interfacing the relays with sirens, etc. are you going to affix your company name to this 120 v "system" you designed? If the system should happen to fail and someone gets injured or perishes due to that malfunction do you really think the judge at your trial is going to accept "Sorry Your Honor, it was my design and I really thought it would work" ?

I'm not trying to break your chops here, I just want to set you straight. The liability of doing what you want to do is greater than what the job is worth IMHO.
 

kwired

Electron manager
Location
NE Nebraska
The liability of doing what you want to do is greater than what the job is worth IMHO.
That liability factor is also what drives up the price of a true fire alarm system to some extent. It isn't that those kind of installers are expecting to have liability issues, it is that they put more time and money into education and keeping up with related codes/standards/product lines/etc. in order to be able to provide the most reliable systems they can, so that they don't have liability claims.
 

goldstar

Senior Member
Location
New Jersey
Occupation
Electrical Contractor
That liability factor is also what drives up the price of a true fire alarm system to some extent. It isn't that those kind of installers are expecting to have liability issues, it is that they put more time and money into education and keeping up with related codes/standards/product lines/etc. in order to be able to provide the most reliable systems they can, so that they don't have liability claims.
OK, I'll buy into that line of thinking. So, with respect to the OP, just asking that type of question and suggesting that such a Rube Goldberg might actually be feasable, automatically puts him in a category all unto his own.:happyyes:
 

John120/240

Senior Member
Location
Olathe, Kansas
OK, I'll buy into that line of thinking. So, with respect to the OP, just asking that type of question and suggesting that such a Rube Goldberg might actually be feasable, automatically puts him in a category all unto his own.:happyyes:

My guess is that he is younger & just thinking outside the box. He doesn't know what he doesn't know.
 

Ragin Cajun

Senior Member
Location
Upstate S.C.
The OP needs to reply to the sound advice given here!!!!

Anything other than a LISTED, etc. FAS is beyond reason!


Also, this "120V system" proposed, I do assume it will have individual 9V battery backup?? Just think about keeping up with all them batteries!!:jawdrop:

RC
 

qcroanoke

Sometimes I don't know if I'm the boxer or the bag
Location
Roanoke, VA.
Occupation
Sorta retired........
The OP needs to reply to the sound advice given here!!!!

Anything other than a LISTED, etc. FAS is beyond reason!


Also, this "120V system" proposed, I do assume it will have individual 9V battery backup?? Just think about keeping up with all them batteries!!:jawdrop:

RC
If they are interconnected don't they all beep on a dead battery fault? Wow! 9 volt batteries ain't cheap and neither is the time to find it.
 

GoldDigger

Moderator
Staff member
Location
Placerville, CA, USA
Occupation
Retired PV System Designer
Only the one with the low battery beeps, but with the sound bouncing and having to wait so long for the next beep it is still hard!

Tapatalk!
 

kwired

Electron manager
Location
NE Nebraska
If they are interconnected don't they all beep on a dead battery fault? Wow! 9 volt batteries ain't cheap and neither is the time to find it.
Don't they recommend changing batteries annually? If you do that you will seldom run into beeping detectors because of weak batteries - if you are replacing with good batteries. And as golddigger mentioned only the one with the weak battery beeps, if they all did that would make it even harder to find the weak one.
 
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