They'll tell you whatever you wana hear

[liquidtite]

I recently started for a new company ,at the interveiw
I asked the owner if he was well equipped with tools and equipment .
He said absolutely , The first day were doing a wire pull of 500,s
I asked were the jack stands are and one guy laughed he said have to roll out the reel
I couldn't believe it . Then a few days later were doing anouther pull and the pm the owners son said hill bring some stands , he brought these little stands that are for your car not for wire pulling , they keeped falling over.

Then were Running 4" emt I asked were the pipe vise is and Forman said we don't have one.
went to cut emt no ban saw , so I'm using a sawzall .
I could understand if the company does mostly resi and some lite commercial, but the company
does strictly heavy commercial ,industrial no resi , plus he has 30 guys on payroll big company,
i don't get how ec,s expect guys to produce professional work if their set up like monkeys .

he also chargers his formans return fees if they order extra material , so now the Forman are
so scared to order material I waist so much time serching for material that's not their . It's so frustrating.

Has as any one experienced this befor I guess the grass is not always greener on the other side
the only plus side is I'm geting the wage I asked for and he does a wide range of work , medical,industrial , generators, controls . Etc

 

[K8MHZ]

As long as you are safe and getting the wage you wanted, my advice would be to do the best you can with what you have, keep your frustrations to yourself and keep you feelers open.

If you decide you just don't want to work for Caveman Electric, start putting your resume in front of other contractors.

You may find that in order to get top of the line tools, you may not get the wage / benefit package that you want.

I worked for a company like the one you are working for. Anytime anyone crabbed about having crappy equipment, the response was always, 'how big of a pay cut do you want in order to get the new equipment?'

 

[kwired]

I was once doing a rough-in installation in a new house. I was watching the plumber drill holes for a 2 inch PVC waste line through wall studs - with a dull hole saw that burned it's way through more so then it cut it's way through. I knew the guys of this company pretty well, the worker was a guy that was a good hard worker - not always the smartest, but was smart enough to know what needs done and how to do it in general.

I made some comment about the boss being to cheap to buy decent drilling bits, and that it is likely killing him on the extra labor.

His reply was it doesn't matter to him if he can drill the hole in 30 seconds or 30 minutes - he gets paid by the hour either way:happyyes:

 

[growler]

I could understand if the company does mostly resi and some lite commercial, but the company
does strictly heavy commercial ,industrial no resi , plus he has 30 guys on payroll big company,
i don't get how ec,s expect guys to produce professional work if their set up like monkeys .

First off 30 guys on the payroll isn't a big company it's just not a really small company.


A lot of these companies grow even in bad times. One year they have maybe 10 employees and then bid some larger jobs and put on more workers but don't really want to invest in more equipment. They try to keep cost down every way they can.

You would be surprised at how many companies do really stupid things just trying to save a few dollars and wasting labor all the time.

I agree with K8MHZ, don't let them get you to do anything that is dangerous and keep looking for a new job. Wouldn't want the foreman's job anyway.

 

[growler]

I made some comment about the boss being to cheap to buy decent drilling bits, and that it is likely killing him on the extra labor.

His reply was it doesn't matter to him if he can drill the hole in 30 seconds or 30 minutes - he gets paid by the hour either way:happyyes:

No matter how stoic an attitude labor may have it really is a bad idea to trade say $200 in labor for a $50 tool.

Many feel they are allready paying for labor so why waste money on tools.

 

[Strathead]

he also chargers his formans return fees if they order extra material , so now the Forman are
so scared to order material I waist so much time serching for material that's not their . It's so frustrating.

Huh? How does this work? I would expect this to be against labor laws. To my knowledge you can't do something like force someone to go fix an error on their own time. You can't legally deduct the cost of a tool they lost or broke. You can write them up and you can fire them, but if they are employed by you they get 40 hours pay for 40 hours work. I generally give quite a bit more than the above, but I try to never expect it from those under me.

 

[gadfly56]

Huh? How does this work? I would expect this to be against labor laws. To my knowledge you can't do something like force someone to go fix an error on their own time. You can't legally deduct the cost of a tool they lost or broke. You can write them up and you can fire them, but if they are employed by you they get 40 hours pay for 40 hours work. I generally give quite a bit more than the above, but I try to never expect it from those under me.

This is definitely not legal in NJ. It's not one of those things you can agree to on the side, either. If I were a foreman there, I'd be looking for another job. Or else all the jobs are going to require 20 trips to Home Depot for every clamp and hanger.

 

[iwire]

I recently started for a new company ,at the interveiw
I asked the owner if he was well equipped with tools and equipment .
He said absolutely , The first day were doing a wire pull of 500,s
I asked were the jack stands are and one guy laughed he said have to roll out the reel
I couldn't believe it . Then a few days later were doing anouther pull and the pm the owners son said hill bring some stands , he brought these little stands that are for your car not for wire pulling , they keeped falling over.

Then were Running 4" emt I asked were the pipe vise is and Forman said we don't have one.
went to cut emt no ban saw , so I'm using a sawzall .
I could understand if the company does mostly resi and some lite commercial, but the company
does strictly heavy commercial ,industrial no resi , plus he has 30 guys on payroll big company,
i don't get how ec,s expect guys to produce professional work if their set up like monkeys .

he also chargers his formans return fees if they order extra material , so now the Forman are
so scared to order material I waist so much time serching for material that's not their . It's so frustrating.

Has as any one experienced this befor I guess the grass is not always greener on the other side
the only plus side is I'm geting the wage I asked for and he does a wide range of work , medical,industrial , generators, controls . Etc

I will be blunt.

Either change jobs or learn to live with it.

Do not try to change how they do things, don't continue to complain about things.

 

[gadfly56]

I will be blunt.

Either change jobs or learn to live with it.

Do not try to change how they do things, don't continue to complain about things.

In the end, those are the OP's only choices. And kvetching about the conditions is likely to get you nowhere except possibly an invitation to the street. On the other hand, I can understand feeling taken advantage off after reassurances that he was coming into a well-equipped shop. My only other advice to the OP is don't take a foreman's position if it's offered.

 

[growler]

He said absolutely , The first day were doing a wire pull of 500,s
I asked were the jack stands are and one guy laughed he said have to roll out the reel
I couldn't believe it .

I was doing a pull of almost 900 ft of 750s and sent for a pull rope from the shop.There were at least 4 ea. 90s in each run and none of them steel (all PVC). I wasn't there when the conduit was installed and just had to take the word of others that were there. The area where the conduit was located was now a parking lot and paved.

What showed up was to 500 ft sections of 1/2" nylon rope.

The PM and I had words over his idea of the correct size pull rope ( not friendly words).

This project didn't work out very well but it wasn't the PM that got blammed for it.

So I guess Iwire is right. Learn to live with it or leave. Sometime you are are just damned if you do and damned if you don't.

I was terminated but got a better job in a couple of days ( jobs were easier to find back then).

 

[liquidtite]

Thanks for the good advice , I only have 4 years experience so I have some time befor
I'll be able to run work .

Its just funny how the owner said he has everything you'll need to work with and I find out
that's not the case , but I found out you'll never totally be satisfied with a company it's always a give n take

 

[cowboyjwc]

Now I worked for a small company, just me and the boss, and we got by just fine doing custom homes and small commercial work. Things got slow and he told me that I needed to find something else and when it picked up he would call me back. So I went to one shop where I knew the owner and asked for work and he told me how much he had and would be glad to have me and that lasted all of a week and a half. Next guys had an old truck that didn't have a heater and he liked to drive with the windows rolled down and not really get started until about 10:00, but still put in an eight hour day. Next guy was 30 miles (?) away when the foreman told us to roll up, but somehow knew exactly what time we had left the job, when we got back to the shop.

For the pay and whatever else was going on, I can't tell you how glad I was to get the call from my old boss telling me to come back.

Yes the grass isn't always greener on the other side of the fence, it's usually the same grass that someone just put a fence on top of.

 

[K8MHZ]

Keep the positive factors in mind, too. They may not be at a job that's well equipped.

Does the job that has crappy equipment have any of these?

Good pay
Co-workers that are decent and helpful
A location not far from home
No one bird dogging you
Flexibility
Decent conditions weather wise
Safe working conditions
Clean working conditions
No fear of losing your job because you have to take time off for stuff
A boss that's not an a-hole

You could lose any or all of the above by jumping ship and going some where else. I'm not saying you are stuck where you are, but when you decide to move on, try to check things out a little better. I know that around here, the working conditions of every contractor that has more than 10 guys are well known. In fact, I wonder how a 30 man shop can keep the fact that they are as wretched as they seem off the grapevine.

 

[gadfly56]

I was doing a pull of almost 900 ft of 750s and sent for a pull rope from the shop.There were at least 4 ea. 90s in each run and none of them steel (all PVC). I wasn't there when the conduit was installed and just had to take the word of others that were there. The area where the conduit was located was now a parking lot and paved.

What showed up was to 500 ft sections of 1/2" nylon rope.

The PM and I had words over his idea of the correct size pull rope ( not friendly words).

This project didn't work out very well but it wasn't the PM that got blammed for it.

So I guess Iwire is right. Learn to live with it or leave. Sometime you are are just damned if you do and damned if you don't.

I was terminated but got a better job in a couple of days ( jobs were easier to find back then).

It is beyond stupid to use nylon rope for a pull of almost any size, let alone that size. There is too much elasticity in nylon and it will store a tremendous amount of energy; under ideal circumstances it will go 300% or more. At college we had the Frosh/Soph games at the begining of each school year. One of the contests was a tug-of-war. Some genius procured a length of 2" nylon line for the tug. Well, 300 college boys on each end of that rope stretched it good, and it let loose. We were damn lucky no one was hurt, but we got a real good lesson in Strength of Materials that day! I have heard of other incidents that have led to broken legs and arms when the line popped.

 

[growler]

I was doing a pull of almost 900 ft of 750s and sent for a pull rope from the shop.There were at least 4 ea. 90s in each run and none of them steel (all PVC).

What showed up was to 500 ft sections of 1/2" nylon rope.

It is beyond stupid to use nylon rope for a pull of almost any size, let alone that size. There is too much elasticity in nylon and it will store a tremendous amount of energy; under ideal circumstances it will go 300% or more.

You can believe I explained all of the short-commings of useing nylon rope to the project manager.

Of couse he was one of those geniuses that had an answer for everything.

He had used 1/2" nylon to pull 750 before. But how far?
He stated that you can pull a car with 1/2" nylon. Sure you can but compare that to the weight of almost 4000 ft of 750.
A new manila rope would cost between $600-$700. What's it going to cost when that nylon cuts into the PVC and we damage 750 cable?

Yes, nylon is dangerous but there are still some managers out there that refuse to buy a decent pull rope. Some managers only think of the cost to have the right equipment on the job and not how much it can cost if they don't have the right equipment (can be a lot more).

Big spool comes off the wrong jack stand and drops on a man's foot.. What does that cost?

 

[Sierrasparky]

You can believe I explained all of the short-commings of useing nylon rope to the project manager.

Of couse he was one of those geniuses that had an answer for everything.

He had used 1/2" nylon to pull 750 before. But how far?
He stated that you can pull a car with 1/2" nylon. Sure you can but compare that to the weight of almost 4000 ft of 750.
A new manila rope would cost between $600-$700. What's it going to cost when that nylon cuts into the PVC and we damage 750 cable?

Yes, nylon is dangerous but there are still some managers out there that refuse to buy a decent pull rope. Some managers only think of the cost to have the right equipment on the job and not how much it can cost if they don't have the right equipment (can be a lot more).

Big spool comes off the wrong jack stand and drops on a man's foot.. What does that cost?

Exactly

 

[Fulthrotl]

I recently started for a new company ,at the interview
I asked the owner if he was well equipped with tools and equipment .
He said absolutely ,

the only plus side is I'm geting the wage I asked for and he does a wide range of work ,
medical,industrial , generators, controls . Etc

cool. a wide range of things that he has no equipment to do. it's funny you should
mention wire pulling.... i am currently pulling a little over a mile of feeders, in
3" & 4" pvc underground.

but.. but... but... i don't have five sets of jack stands and axles. but... but....
there is a rental yard in LA that rents this stuff out.... it's amazing... $500 will
get you all the stuff for a week.

but, but... i have this really difficult vault i have to pull thru, and you can't get
a wheel in where you need one...... so, i actually BOUGHT this, just to do my
job...

http://www.cmi-gear.com/catalog/ropes/edge.asp



you can stuff that most anywhere, including spanning other cables, with
mule tape tied off to angle clips set in the vault walls, floor, etc, and rock.

do i know any contractors i've worked for who would buy something like
that, besides me? no. that is why i'm self employed.

people who usually won't provide shit to do anything with are doing work
time and material. whatever. it's really none of your concern.

they are giving you some money for you to put up with them. it's not
every day that you can have an income while you are looking for a job.

you ARE still looking for a job, right?

 

[HackElectric]

I hate when low level employees have opinions...

 

[iwire]

I hate when low level employees have opinions...

I hate when low level owners have opinions...

 

[HackElectric]

I hate when low level owners have opinions...

You may hate it, but those opinions are the only ones that count.

In the case of this thread, it looks like the owner's opinions got him a 30 many company that is growing and hiring new people. The company is successful enough to have the OP apply to it for work.

But let's forget that and listen to the newly hired journeyman who already knows everything.

ETA: Sorry, I should have said apprentice instead of journeyman