My first in ground pool job

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mkgrady

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Massachusetts
Getting ready to wire my first in ground pool. After reviewing 680 And some info from mike holts free stuff I am not sure of some things. I'm at the stage where the pool contractor is waiting for me to do the bonding so the gunite can be installed.

Can the bare solid #8 that starts at the pool pump and goes out and around the pool be spliced? The loop will be over 250' and I want the know if splicing is optional if the need arises.

Does this loop need to be 3' out from the edge of the pool? If yes I'm not sure how to do that. In some places the excavation is several feet deep and will not be back filled until later. And if the loop is 3' out from the pool do I just burndy to it and run to the reinforcing rods with a short whip? Same question on water bond. Can I just tap the loop and run to the skimmer where I install the water bond gizmo?

There are no ladders or dive boards so the only parts at the pool to bond will be lights. Do the lights connect to the #8 bond or is it just bonded through the conduits that feed the lights? The lights are not there so I wondering at what stage they need to be on site.

At what depth is the bond buried?

Also please respond with any advice for a pool rookie that I may be overlooking. Thanks in advance!
 
augie47

augie47

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Tennessee
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State Electrical Inspector (Retired)
My advice for "pool rookies" is always the same: Don't do pools :D
IMO, if he just getting ready to gunnite the pool shell you may not need to do anything. Make sure his structural frame is not encapuslated steel (in my experience none have been). If it has niche lighting you will need to assure you have a #8 pigtail attached to the outside shell so that you can attach it to your perimeter bond when necessary.
The next step will be when he is ready to prep the perimeter. Prior to that, review 680.26
 
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mkgrady

Senior Member
Location
Massachusetts
He can't get his inspection on the reinforcing until I get the bonding approved by my inspector. Don't know if that is local thing. This inspector has some rules that others do not but I'm not going to pick any battles while I'm a rookie. Btw I used to be a rookie at everything!!
 
augie47

augie47

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Location
Tennessee
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State Electrical Inspector (Retired)
mkgrady said:
He can't get his inspection on the reinforcing until I get the bonding approved by my inspector. Don't know if that is local thing. This inspector has some rules that others do not but I'm not going to pick any battles while I'm a rookie. Btw I used to be a rookie at everything!!
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You may find I'm a rookie on that part then. I'm not sure what the inspector will want to see.Here if it's a gunnite pool theres not much to look at as far as the pool shell itself. All the fun starts later.
 
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GoldDigger

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augie47 said:
You may find I'm a rookie on that part then. I'm not sure what the inspector will want to see.Here if it's a gunnite pool theres not much to look at as far as the pool shell itself. All the fun starts later.
Click to expand...

He may well want to see the bond between your wire(s) and the rebar before the shell is sprayed.
 
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mkgrady

Senior Member
Location
Massachusetts
GoldDigger said:
He may well want to see the bond between your wire(s) and the rebar before the shell is sprayed.
Click to expand...

That's what I am assuming. I picture running the complete loop and hitting all the parts (4 points on the rerod, the pool water gizmo, the light housings). Is it more normal to just leave whips from the rerod, etc and run the loop later?

I still need help with my other questions if anybody can add to this.
 
Dennis Alwon

Dennis Alwon

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Chapel Hill, NC
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Retired Electrical Contractor
mkgrady said:
Can the bare solid #8 that starts at the pool pump and goes out and around the pool be spliced? The loop will be over 250' and I want the know if splicing is optional if the need arises.
Click to expand...
I don't see anywhere in the nec that disallows splices. In fact, one usually runs the #8 around the pool and then ties the four corners of the pool to the loop with listed clamps. mike holt has a graphic on this

ry%3D400


Does this loop need to be 3' out from the edge of the pool? If yes I'm not sure how to do that. In some places the excavation is several feet deep and will not be back filled until later. And if the loop is 3' out from the pool do I just burndy to it and run to the reinforcing rods with a short whip? Same question on water bond. Can I just tap the loop and run to the skimmer where I install the water bond gizmo?
Click to expand...
The loop must be 18-24 inches from the inside wall of the pool and 4-6 inches below subgrade


There are no ladders or dive boards so the only parts at the pool to bond will be lights. Do the lights connect to the #8 bond or is it just bonded through the conduits that feed the lights? The lights are not there so I wondering at what stage they need to be on site.
Click to expand...
If the lights are metallic shells and housings then a #8 is required from the shell to the pool deck box. In my experience the pool guys always set the lights and ran the conduit to the deck box.

At what depth is the bond buried? 4-6 inches below subgrade
 
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mkgrady

Senior Member
Location
Massachusetts
Dennis Alwon said:
I don't see anywhere in the nec that disallows splices. In fact, one usually runs the #8 around the pool and then ties the four corners of the pool to the loop with listed clamps. mike holt has a graphic on this

ry%3D400


The loop must be 18-24 inches from the inside wall of the pool and 4-6 inches below subgrade


If the lights are metallic shells and housings then a #8 is required from the shell to the pool deck box. In my experience the pool guys always set the lights and ran the conduit to the deck box.

At what depth is the bond buried? 4-6 inches below subgrade
Click to expand...

Thanks Dennis. Very helpful as usual.

Based on these and others answers it seems the sequence would be to connect whips of #8 to the four corners of the pool reinforcing and the water bond fitting, leaving them accessible for a connection to the bond loop. The bond loop would be installed after the grade is brought back to finished grade.
 
augie47

augie47

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Location
Tennessee
Occupation
State Electrical Inspector (Retired)
mkgrady said:
Thanks Dennis. Very helpful as usual.

Based on these and others answers it seems the sequence would be to connect whips of #8 to the four corners of the pool reinforcing and the water bond fitting, leaving them accessible for a connection to the bond loop. The bond loop would be installed after the grade is brought back to finished grade.
Click to expand...

Often your water bond fitting, if needed, is at the pump (A metal ladder and/or possibly then pool light may serve as your water bond {see 680.26(C)}). You may find it beneficial to install the bonding pigtail to the back of your light niche as it will be inaccessible once they back-fill.
 
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david

Senior Member
Location
Pennsylvania
When making connections between copper and steel use a connector for dissimilar metals

Make sure you get the # 8 green insulated redundant ground to the lug in the fixture and encapsulated before they fill the pool with water. The pool splice box usually comes with strain relief and a seal for the fixture cord.
(edit- you have to bring your3/4 conduit to the correct hub on some of these boxes for the strain relief)

Make sure you coil enough fixture cord to allow the fixture to reach the deck for re-lamping.

Do not use wire nuts for any splice for the equipment ground(s) for the light fixtures

Do not use self-tapping screws to connect your bond lugs to the pool structure.

Remember article 680 has its own table for depth of conduits underground.

Any panel installed for the pool equipment must have an insulated (not covered) equipment ground

Remember even if you use a 15 amp circuit for the pool lights the min equipment ground needs to still be a #12 awg
 
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Deleted member 139766

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augie47 said:
Often your water bond fitting, if needed, is at the pump
Click to expand...

I have encountered devices that must be installed in the plumbing below the pool water level so as to ensure that they are always in contact with water. I haven't seen one that can be above ground near the pump. I look for the water bond prior to gunite (usually a light shell with a metal plate inside) but I'm not always the first inspector so an after the fact device would be helpful. Please point me in the right direction.
 
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Deleted member 139766

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Dennis Alwon said:
There are many items on the market

zincAndodeGlueIn.jpg



View attachment 10521
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I could be wrong but I do believe that the one on top is an anode for saltwater pools. The second one is for an above ground pool. Are there any for in-ground pools that can be located above the water level? It would definitely be a help because I have had cases where they had to break into the wall of the pool and install this:
http://www.poolsupplyunlimited.com/...2008/74455p1?gclid=CLOazOXtnb8CFUhufgodlH8AEg
 
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