Got Shocked

[beck]

Hello everyone,
I work at a University in NYC


I got shocked removing a cover off a prewired wiremold receptacle raceway.
As a result of my peers, on using the EGC as a grounded conductor.
I explained this issue to my director, the answer I got was "I am at fault for not test the enclosure first."
In the twenty years, I have never test any enclosure first.
I told my director it could have been a student who got shocked.

Thanks,
I don't think I'm nuts

 

[GoldDigger]

The NEC does not allow a green wire to be re-identified AFAIC. And without a wire EGC, the installation apparently is relying on the raceway to provide the EGC function. I wonder whether the wiremold is listed for that purpose? I doubt it.

 

[don_resqcapt19]

It would be rare that the use of an EGC as a grounded conductor would result in a shock unless you created an open circuit. If the circuit is not an open circuit, the only voltage available to drive the shock would be the voltage drop on the conductor, of course that is assuming that the conductor that you actually got the shock from was the conductor being used as the grounded conductor.

 

[fmtjfw]

The raceway looks like ALA4800 dual aluminum raceway. It is listed for grounding. ALA09 is the listed grounding clamp. Just as in other raceways/boxes/enclosures you are not permitted to use a mounting screw to attach a grounding wire. If the screw is not a mounting screw and engages at least two threads in the raceway it may be acceptable to some AHJs but the use of ALA09 is the method according to the instructions and may be required.

I don't know of any metallic WireMold raceways that are not rated for use as a grounding means. (Canada may be different, there an actual grounding conductor is required for Snapicoil outlet strips there.)

I believe that the armor of a cable containing a grounding wire is not rated for grounding unless the cable is especially listed for healthcare locations.

As said above, you are never allowed to use a green insulated wire for any purpose than grounding (except for circuits of 50V or less).

 

[mopowr steve]

What do you think you were shocked from? The cover which holds the receptacle or was it from the white wire that is hanging loose. I have a feeling that there is a load still attached to that white wire and you just got between it and the grounded frame of the wire mold.
Something does not make sense why some one felt they needed to reidentify the ground to utilize it as a neutral.
Maybe tell us more about what the tag says about that neutral in there.

 

[rt66electric]

be Careful "loaded neutrals" hurt

be Careful "loaded neutrals" hurt

On a troubleshooting call..... "lights burning out and most things not working"
The main 100amp panel is located next to the meter.

As I opened the panel door it sparked to the metercan ( 5to10 amp neutral load) I was having fun spotwelding , the customer was running...... good thing Iwas wearing new tennis shoes...

 

[mopowr steve]

:lol: Yea it's fun getting average joes reaction to sparks.

 

[david]

Something does not make sense why some one felt they needed to reidentify the ground to utilize it as a neutral.

It doesn?t look like they are using the 12/3 MC cable for a multi wire circuit.
It looks like they are using it for two separate circuits.
Red / white and Black / green Identified white
They also have a blue circuit. They are most likely picking up the equipment ground from the other circuit associated with the blue

 

[david]

I have a feeling that there is a load still attached to that white wire and you just got between it and the grounded frame of the wire mold.
Maybe tell us more about what the tag says about that neutral in there.

I agree it looks like the red circuit is supplying rec. past the point of the neutral separation and if loads are still plugged into the red circuit past the neutral separation it is a back feed from the loads on the red circuit

 

[starbolin]

...it may be acceptable to some AHJs but the use of ALA09 is the method according to the instructions and may be required.

A listed Al-Cu lug would be reqluird here in any scenario.

 

[GoldDigger]

The tag on the unused neutral says "broken"?
BTW, many cubicle systems have a second neutral for computer loads on one phase only and both an insulated EGC and a raceway EGC.

 

[fmtjfw]

A listed Al-Cu lug would be reqluird here in any scenario.

Nope, the ALA09 is THE LISTED way to attach a ground and takes care of the AL CU connection

 

[starbolin]

Nope, the ALA09 is THE LISTED way to attach a ground and takes care of the AL CU connection

I don't see a conflict in our two statements. The EGC connection as shown is not only incorrect but dangerous.


P.S. I just realized that is aluminum chips all over the bottom of the raceway:O

 

[kwired]

Hello everyone,
I work at a University in NYC


I got shocked removing a cover off a prewired wiremold receptacle raceway.
As a result of my peers, on using the EGC as a grounded conductor.
I explained this issue to my director, the answer I got was "I am at fault for not test the enclosure first."
In the twenty years, I have never test any enclosure first.
I told my director it could have been a student who got shocked.

Thanks,
I don't think I'm nuts


View attachment 10585 View attachment 10584

I think some responses did not catch the fact that the EGC was being used for grounded conuctor (neutral) purposes. This will not normally subject you to shock if everything is intact, but if you are taking things apart who knows just what current path you may be interrupting when the EGC is used as a normal current carrying conductor. You possibly could have shut off equipment in the section you were working on and still had current from some other circuit flowing in your EGC which includes the raceway and other metal parts in contact with it.

Tell your director to stick his tester where the sun doesn't shine, who tests raceways and EGC's for voltage? What do you test to if you plan to do so. If it is carrying current and you test it, it may appear "safe" but when you open that current path is when a voltage is exposed to you:roll:

The person who used the EGC for a current carrying conductor is the one that needs a little education here.

 

[hurk27]

It appears that the green wire remarked as a neutral may have been a bootleg ground, and the real neutral fell out of the backstab in the receptacle or red wirenut, this separated the neutrals and if the red/blue circuit that is under the red wirenut was still hot and had a load you would have a potential between the loose white wire and the case of the wiremold or the wiremold and something else grounded???

 

[Rick Christopherson]

The reason the OP got shocked isn't because the grounding conductor was used as the neutral, but because the aluminum chassis no longer has any ground connection. The chassis is free to float to any voltage, and either through capacitive/inductive coupling or direct contact, it is maintaining a non-zero voltage.

 

[Little Bill]

If you notice the tag, or whatever that is, around the 2 green egcs, it first appears that the EGC is spliced to the neutral. But after a closer look, it looks like the EGC from the receptacle just ends in that tag because you can see the white/neutral continuing on from there.
Wish we could see more of the raceway to see where the feed comes in and what is past that recep. Yes, the raceway can be used for grounding, but something has to ground the raceway. We can't see that in the pic.

 

[kwired]

I first was puzzled at why they have a red, black white and the taped green all in same wire connector but after looking at the photos again I just realized that is not a red wire connector but an MC cable/connector entering the back of the wire way.
One has to ask why they taped the green - apparently they must have two 120 volt circuits and wanted separate neutrals instead of a MWBC? Next question is where does the free white belong - it is likely the voltage source of the shock as it is an open circuit and has the ungrounded side trying to push current thru the load and back on this white (and will if you touch it and something grounded).

 

[hurk27]

If you notice the tag, or whatever that is, around the 2 green egcs, it first appears that the EGC is spliced to the neutral. But after a closer look, it looks like the EGC from the receptacle just ends in that tag because you can see the white/neutral continuing on from there.
Wish we could see more of the raceway to see where the feed comes in and what is past that recep. Yes, the raceway can be used for grounding, but something has to ground the raceway. We can't see that in the pic.

Bill that is a Wago that is connecting the three green EGC's, the white wire actually passes behind it, but notice the white wire from the MC cable to the right, it is striped out like it was landed, it's not bent and since all the other wires in the receptacle are back stabbed to me it makes sense that it might have also been backed stabbed but fell out as the receptacle was removed???

Of course it's just a guess?

Maybe the OP will give us some more info?

 

[Little Bill]

Bill that is a Wago that is connecting the three green EGC's, the white wire actually passes behind it, but notice the white wire from the MC cable to the right, it is striped out like it was landed, it's not bent and since all the other wires in the receptacle are back stabbed to me it makes sense that it might have also been backed stabbed but fell out as the receptacle was removed???

Of course it's just a guess?

Maybe the OP will give us some more info?

I use plenty of Wagos and Ideal Push-in connectors and none of mine resemble that. Maybe it's a different brand. Mine all have the entry ports on just one end. That one appears to enter from both ends. After I blew up the picture I can see it's some kind of connector/splice though.

For some reason I never even noticed the white from the MC cable not terminated into anything. That was probably where the shock came from.
I'm still not seeing where the EGC was used as the neutral or vise-versa. I just see where the green from the MC is taped white and probably being used as a 2nd neutral. Not like a bootlegged ground/neutral.

Edit: I see why I hadn't noticed the unterminated white wire before. There are actually two pictures and I have been only seeing one of them!:slaphead: