"Waterproof," or "marine", or "submersible" rating for cable.

[rrc14]

"Waterproof," or "marine", or "submersible" rating for cable.

Does the NEC have a "marine" or "submersible" rating for cable. All I could find was a "wet location" rating, which to me does not mean submersible/waterproof, or does it? Does the NEC even recognize submersible/waterproof cable?

Looking for a submersible/waterproof cable to provide power to a pump motor 60 feet from the source across a narrow canal. The cable will be installed in schedule 80 conduit to cross the canal.

Anyone use this type of cable?


Thanks,

 

[electric_cal]

This cable is used at aerator basins in Waste Water Treatment Plants.
It supplies 460 volt 3 phase power the aerator pump motors and is submersible.
It should work for your application.
SOOW Portable Cord, SOOW Portable Control Cable​

Service, Oil resistant jacket, Oil resistant insulation, Weatherresistant)?Has a tough, flexible Thermoset rubber jacketwhich is abrasion, sunlight, ozone, oil and chemical resistant. SOOW is also water submersible and flameretardant. SOOW is designed for indoor and outdoor use with industrial equipment, heavy tools, battery chargers,portable lights and power extensions. SOOW meets CSA approval for outdoor use.
​

 

[GoldDigger]

But if the installation does not require flexible cord, the NEC may not allow it for this use pulled in conduit.

 

[electric_cal]

But if the installation does not require flexible cord, the NEC may not allow it for this use pulled in conduit.

Very true, and a good point.:thumbsup:

 

[mgookin]

Does the NEC have a "marine" or "submersible" rating for cable. All I could find was a "wet location" rating, which to me does not mean submersible/waterproof, or does it? Does the NEC even recognize submersible/waterproof cable?

Looking for a submersible/waterproof cable to provide power to a pump motor 60 feet from the source across a narrow canal. The cable will be installed in schedule 80 conduit to cross the canal.

Anyone use this type of cable?


Thanks,

Is there a particular reason you're set on cable in lieu of conductors?

Doesn't anything in an outdoor raceway get considered wet location because it's deemed the conduit will fill with water even if outdoors above dry ground?

For conductors doesn't a "W" take care of the wet requirement?

If you read http://site.ul.com/global/documents...ctrical/newsletters/W&CMG_April2007_Final.pdf page 21 section 17 there's pump cable.

Just curious - is this a saltwater navigable waterway?

 

[augie47]

I would think 682.13 would apply and depending on who has jurisdiction over the canal there may be a ton of local restrictions.

 

[SceneryDriver]

I would think 682.13 would apply and depending on who has jurisdiction over the canal there may be a ton of local restrictions.

The PVC conduit would be considered a "sleeve" and not part of a "conduit system" if it were only used for mechanical protection, would it not?


SceneryDriver

 

[iwire]

The PVC conduit would be considered a "sleeve" and not part of a "conduit system" if it were only used for mechanical protection, would it not?


SceneryDriver

Seems like an AHJ call that could go either way.

In general the NEC does not allow cord to be concealed.

400.8 Uses Not Permitted. Unless specifically permitted in 400.7, flexible cords and cables shall not be used for the following:

(1) As a substitute for the fixed wiring of a structure

(2) Where run through holes in walls, structural ceilings, suspended ceilings, dropped ceilings, or floors

(3) Where run through doorways, windows, or similar openings

(4) Where attached to building surfaces

Exception to (4): Flexible cord and cable shall be permitted to be attached to building surfaces in accordance with the provisions of 368.56(B)

(5) Where concealed by walls, floors, or ceilings or located above suspended or dropped ceilings

(6) Where installed in raceways, except as otherwise permitted in this Code

(7) Where subject to physical damage

Given your user name I assume you violate the above on a regular basis.

 

[fmtjfw]

Seems like an AHJ call that could go either way.

In general the NEC does not allow cord to be concealed.

225.10 Wiring on Buildings (or Other Structures).
The installation of outside wiring on surfaces of buildings (or other structures) shall be permitted for circuits of not over 1000 volts, nominal, as open wiring on insulators, as multiconductor cable, ....

100 Definitions.
Concealed. Rendered inaccessible by the structure or finish of the building.

Informational Note: Wires in concealed raceways are considered concealed, even though they may become accessible by withdrawing them.

Structure. That which is built or constructed.

When you are outside a lot of the rules are relaxed. The only question would be if a conduit run is a "structure".

 

[iwire]

225.10 Wiring on Buildings (or Other Structures).
The installation of outside wiring on surfaces of buildings (or other structures) shall be permitted for circuits of not over 1000 volts, nominal, as open wiring on insulators, as multiconductor cable, ....

In my opinion that sections 'multiconductor cable' is not referencing rubber cord that is about AC, MC, UF etc. You know ... wiring methods.

You cannot secure a rubber cord to the outside of a building and call it good.

But as I clearly stated in the post you quoted, it seems like the OPs specific installation is an AHJ call that could go either way.

 

[fmtjfw]

In my opinion that sections 'multiconductor cable' is not referencing rubber cord that is about AC, MC, UF etc. You know ... wiring methods.

You cannot secure a rubber cord to the outside of a building and call it good.

But as I clearly stated in the post you quoted, it seems like the OPs specific installation is an AHJ call that could go either way.

Sorry, should have shown the whole paragraph:

225.10 Wiring on Buildings (or Other Structures).
The installation of outside wiring on surfaces of buildings (or other structures) shall be permitted for circuits of not over 1000 volts, nominal, as open wiring on insulators, as multiconductor cable, as Type MC cable, as Type UF cable, as Type MI cable, as messenger-supported wiring, in rigid metal conduit (RMC), in intermediate metal conduit (IMC), in rigid polyvinyl chloride (PVC) conduit, in reinforced thermosetting resin conduit (RTRC), in cable trays, as cablebus, in wireways, in auxiliary gutters, in electrical metallic tubing (EMT), in flexible metal conduit (FMC), in liquidtight flexible metal conduit (LFMC), in liquidtight flexible nonmetallic conduit (LFNC), and in busways.
Circuits of over 1000 volts, nominal, shall be installed as provided in 300.37.

Multiconductor cable is just one of the many items in the laundry list, not a descriptor for MC, UF, or MI. If it were it would be followed by a colon, not a comma.

I tend to agree with not calling it good, but the code apparently says otherwise.

 

[tom baker]

There is a UL listing for submersible pump cable and obviously used extensively for submersible pumps where flexibility is required.

 

[SceneryDriver]

Given your user name I assume you violate the above on a regular basis.

I resemble that! We do have to bend and stretch the rules sometimes. Theater is a strange beast; luckily, we have a very reasonable AHJ who works with us to find safe and equitable solutions when there's an issue that code doesn't directly address. You wouldn't believe what theatrical designers dream up sometimes; they're worse than architects.


SceneryDriver

 

[iwire]

Sorry, should have shown the whole paragraph:

225.10 Wiring on Buildings (or Other Structures).
The installation of outside wiring on surfaces of buildings (or other structures) shall be permitted for circuits of not over 1000 volts, nominal, as open wiring on insulators, as multiconductor cable, as Type MC cable, as Type UF cable, as Type MI cable, as messenger-supported wiring, in rigid metal conduit (RMC), in intermediate metal conduit (IMC), in rigid polyvinyl chloride (PVC) conduit, in reinforced thermosetting resin conduit (RTRC), in cable trays, as cablebus, in wireways, in auxiliary gutters, in electrical metallic tubing (EMT), in flexible metal conduit (FMC), in liquidtight flexible metal conduit (LFMC), in liquidtight flexible nonmetallic conduit (LFNC), and in busways.
Circuits of over 1000 volts, nominal, shall be installed as provided in 300.37.

Multiconductor cable is just one of the many items in the laundry list, not a descriptor for MC, UF, or MI. If it were it would be followed by a colon, not a comma.

I tend to agree with not calling it good, but the code apparently says otherwise.

We will remain in disagreement on this and many things.

That section does not IMO apply to article 400 cords and cables.

 

[iwire]

You wouldn't believe what theatrical designers dream up sometimes; they're worse than architects.

Oh I do believe you. The issue I have is their belief that the rules need to be circumvented for their grand vision.

 

[SceneryDriver]

Oh I do believe you. The issue I have is their belief that the rules need to be circumvented for their grand vision.

Very true. We don't circumvent; we try to offer alternatives when a designer wants the impossible. Impossible usually just takes longer and costs more.



SceneryDriver