Mineralac choke effect

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kwired

Electron manager
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NE Nebraska
I know I've seen this in a thread before but I can't find it.
Will a mineralac fitting on PVC cause a choke effect on the GEC?
Not as much as a metal raceway for a longer length around the conductor, but yes it should. If you can replace the bolt with a non ferrous bolt then it shouldn't.
 

iwire

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Not as much as a metal raceway for a longer length around the conductor, but yes it should. If you can replace the bolt with a non ferrous bolt then it shouldn't.

A tie wrap in place of the bolt would do it but I used to get nylon machine screws and nuts from an industrial hardware supplier for another application I needed nonconductive hardware for. Surprisingly strong for what they where.
 

kwired

Electron manager
Location
NE Nebraska
A tie wrap in place of the bolt would do it but I used to get nylon machine screws and nuts from an industrial hardware supplier for another application I needed nonconductive hardware for. Surprisingly strong for what they where.
Does it need to be non conductive or just non ferrous? Not saying your suggestions won't work, but a brass or stainless bolt would be non ferrous also.

Add: and wouldn't have the same magnetic properties as something ferrous.
 

iwire

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Does it need to be non conductive or just non ferrous? Not saying your suggestions won't work, but a brass or stainless bolt would be non ferrous also.

Add: and wouldn't have the same magnetic properties as something ferrous.

I don't know, you will have ferrous metal wrapping around 350 degrees of the conduit, I don't know if electrically connecting the ends would make a choke out of that or as you suggest would it have to be ferrous entirely to make a choke. :?

I don't know, and I doubt it's really a problem either way.


Calling 'Gar' to do some bench tests. :)
 

kwired

Electron manager
Location
NE Nebraska
I don't know, you will have ferrous metal wrapping around 350 degrees of the conduit, I don't know if electrically connecting the ends would make a choke out of that or as you suggest would it have to be ferrous entirely to make a choke. :?

I don't know, and I doubt it's really a problem either way.


Calling 'Gar' to do some bench tests. :)
Well, just cutting slots in a panel wall between single conductor entries is enough in that application.

I am not all that certain either what results would be, but I am leaning towards using a stainless bolt will be better (maybe even much better) then a steel bolt, because of it's magnetic properties (or lack of them).
 

fmtjfw

Senior Member
Non-metallic lock nut

Non-metallic lock nut

Steel City LN-50x, x=1 ? IMC/RMC, x=2 ? IMC/RMC ...

The catalog describes them for use with IMC/RMC which have tapered threads, but they would probably be ok for male threaded PVC fittings.

The choke effect (for non-magnetic saturation levels) is probably proportional to the cross section of the metallic metal surrounding the conductor. (Ignoring any wavelength stuff since I assume we are talking about 60Hz.)

It would take a whole bunch of conduit clamps surrounding the conductor to equal the cross section of of a foot of the equivalent size of RMC.

As a quick test compare the weight of the clamps versus conduit.

By the way: What is the application, high current separate conduit per conductor circuit, lightning conductor, or GEC?
 
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GoldDigger

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The magnetic circuit wouldopportunity have to be completed with ferrous metal. Just an electrical connection would not work.
But if the air gap is very small, even if held closed by a brass bolt, there can still be a choke effect.
Even a narrow slot cut in sheet metal will work because the area of metal facing the gap is so small.
 

roger

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I used to get nylon machine screws and nuts from an industrial hardware supplier for another application I needed nonconductive hardware for. Surprisingly strong for what they where.
Same here, but if a PVC strap would work I went that route.

As far as the locknut is concerned, the conductor is passing through a metallic ring anyways, be it a panel, disconnect, or meter enclosure, so the lowly locknut wouldn't seem to make that much of a difference since it is in contact with said enclosure.

Roger
 

GoldDigger

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Same here, but if a PVC strap would work I went that route.

As far as the locknut is concerned, the conductor is passing through a metallic ring anyways, be it a panel, disconnect, or meter enclosure, so the lowly locknut wouldn't seem to make that much of a difference since it is in contact with said enclosure.

Roger
If you cut a slot from one hole to another and then screw on a ferrous nut that bridges the cut slot you might see extra heating in the locknut, probably only at very high current.
 

roger

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If you cut a slot from one hole to another and then screw on a ferrous nut that bridges the cut slot you might see extra heating in the locknut, probably only at very high current.
I think the discussion has left the OP's question. There should only be one hole for a GEC but, in isolated phase installations I agree and 300.20 would apply.

Roger
 

infinity

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New Jersey
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Just my 2 cents, a 1" piece of metal encircling the GEC and having any real detrimental effect is absurd.
 

domnic

Senior Member
Occupation
Electrical Contractor
choke effect

choke effect

What is choke effect and what harm will it do?
 

GoldDigger

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What is choke effect and what harm will it do?
It is the effect that running a wire through a ferrous ring or sleeve creates a single turn iron core inductor (also called a choke). That inductance will restrict current flow and create a voltage drop when fault currents, but more likely lightening induced currents are applied to the GEC.
The biggest safety hazard, IMHO, is that the voltage will get so high upstream of the choke that it will arc over to something (or someone) else and cause damage.
 

SceneryDriver

Senior Member
Location
NJ
Occupation
Electrical and Automation Designer
Steel City LN-50x, x=1 ? IMC/RMC, x=2 ? IMC/RMC ...

The catalog describes them for use with IMC/RMC which have tapered threads, but they would probably be ok for male threaded PVC fittings.

The choke effect (for non-magnetic saturation levels) is probably proportional to the cross section of the metallic metal surrounding the conductor. (Ignoring any wavelength stuff since I assume we are talking about 60Hz.)

It would take a whole bunch of conduit clamps surrounding the conductor to equal the cross section of of a foot of the equivalent size of RMC.

As a quick test compare the weight of the clamps versus conduit.

By the way: What is the application, high current separate conduit per conductor circuit, lightning conductor, or GEC?

Is using a 1-hole strap an option?

SceneryDriver
 

domnic

Senior Member
Occupation
Electrical Contractor
choke effect

choke effect

Wat about a mineralac strap on a pvc conduit from meter base that a GEC runs in to ground rod ?
 
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