Installing/adding Receptacle outlet in existing retail store...

[cjs]

Hello,

What are the minimum requirement for adding a receptacle to power a 120v/5a load that is in a wet location (retail store, under roof but at the edge in very wet location...) and runs continuously?

Thanks,
CJ

 

[augie47]

Circuit capable of carrying the load, conductor sized per the overcurrent protective device and taking voltage drop into consideration (not a NEC requirement),and a receptacle/box/cover meeting the requirements 406.8

 

[cjs]

Circuit capable of carrying the load, conductor sized per the overcurrent protective device and taking voltage drop into consideration (not a NEC requirement),and a receptacle/box/cover meeting the requirements 406.8

Thanks, customer wants me to splice into nearest junction box feeding a general purpose receptacle outlet. Tells me others have spliced into 120v lighting circuit which I didn't want to do because it takes to long to verify existing load... Pretty much the same for any circuit he'd like my to slice into but he doesn't want to pay for new circuit from panel...

What can I "get away with" code wise?

Thanks again

 

[iwire]

I would pick a circuit to tie into, see what is on it and decide if I could add to it I see no reason to run a new dedicated circuit for a 5 amp load.

 

[cjs]

I would pick a circuit to tie into, see what is on it and decide if I could add to it I see no reason to run a new dedicated circuit for a 5 amp load.

The only "close" circuit is the receptacle outlet and the MFG of the unit doesn't want motor loads which will be plugged into the other outlets on the same circuit. He also doesn't want it on a lighting circuit (even if I could find a 120v that isn't already loaded).

 

[ActionDave]

The only "close" circuit is the receptacle outlet and the MFG of the unit doesn't want motor loads which will be plugged into the other outlets on the same circuit. He also doesn't want it on a lighting circuit (even if I could find a 120v that isn't already loaded).

A new circuit for a 5A load.... not on my dime unless there is a good reason.

Most recpt. circuits are lightly loaded so code wise there are good odds you can use a close one.

Do what the customer wants or do what the manufacturer wants? I start with who is paying the bill and hash over any warrentee issues with him.

 

[augie47]

Way too many variables to give a clear cut answer here.
(a) who's paying the bill and what do they want ?
(b) what's the nature of the load and the result if the breaker trips ?
(c) how would install costs compare (how much more would it cost to provide an individual circuit) ?
(d) how much load is on circuits you might like to use to make a connection ?

There can be a huge difference between "minimum requirement" (your question) and most desirable solution taking all of the above into account.

 

[cjs]

A new circuit for a 5A load.... not on my dime unless there is a good reason.

Most recpt. circuits are lightly loaded so code wise there are good odds you can use a close one.

Do what the customer wants or do what the manufacturer wants? I start with who is paying the bill and hash over any warrentee issues with him.

Thanks but this gets me back to where I started.... I know I've installed dozens/hundreds this way by request but never new the exact code on this... can anyone help here....

Thanks

 

[augie47]

220.14(A), 220.16(B)

 

[cjs]

Way too many variables to give a clear cut answer here.
(a) who's paying the bill and what do they want ?
(b) what's the nature of the load and the result if the breaker trips ?
(c) how would install costs compare (how much more would it cost to provide an individual circuit) ?
(d) how much load is on circuits you might like to use to make a connection ?

There can be a huge difference between "minimum requirement" (your question) and most desirable solution taking all of the above into account.

The customer wants to power a new piece of equipment that runs continuously that is rated at 5 amps. He wants it done cheap at NEC minimum...
This equipment has a small pump and fan (120v) and an electronic controller (24v) xferm 120/24...
The manufacturer (I awaiting install instructions...) by phone wants a dedicated circuit so that motor loads and ballasts don't interfere with controller...
The closest 120v circuit is a general use receptacle outlet...

Lets say the customer doesn't care about the warranty and wants me to spice into the receptacle circuit... What do I have to worry about as far as the NEC is concerned?

Thanks

 

[augie47]

If the desired circuit is general use receptacle circuits only, 220.14(I).
{other than manufacturer's instructions included in the listing or labeling, if any--110.3(B)}

 

[cjs]

If the desired circuit is general use receptacle circuits only, 220.14(I).
{other than manufacturer's instructions included in the listing or labeling, if any--110.3(B)}

Thanks again Augie.

I'm reviewing the NEC code now. Thanks for pointing me in the right direction. I remembered the rule of installing per instructions, trying to get a copy now...

It's not a general use receptacle, it's to serve a continuous load (actually, I don't know how often the pump and fan will be running... more info to gather, ugh... controller will be on 24/7 powered through the xfmer but do I really need to worry about that NEC wise?...)

I need and want to review all the NEC code but at the same time I'm wondering if I spice into the nearest receptacle circuit to provide a new receptacle outlet near the unit will violate any NEC rules if the manufacturer doesn't supply install instructions.....

I'm sure the customer would have simply plugged the unit into the nearest receptacle if the cord would have reached....

Keeping in mind the tech I talk to on the phone said it should be on dedicated circuit and not on lighting circuit or circuits with motor loads... The customer does use an electric pressure washer plugged into the nearest circuit...

Customer just wants a receptacle installed near the unit as cheap as possible. I don't want to violate any NEC code...

 

[kwired]

If you put too much load on the circuit you choose - you will be tripping overcurrent devcies.

If that happens either run new circuit or find a different circuit to connect to.

It is possible if they use a high pressure washer on same circuit it may cause overloading - tell customer those possibilities if you want to fulfill their wish of doing it at the least possible cost.

Lighting circuits may or may not be a good choice to connect to. If they are nearly full loaded - not a good choice. If there is room for more load - it may just work out. If you are tapped into the controlled side of lighting switches though (common at retail stores to only have switched leads out in the retail area, with only limited number of 24/7 "night lights") your equipment you are trying to power will not run when lights are shut down.

 

[cjs]

Thanks for all the replies... Have a good week.

 

[Little Bill]

If you put too much load on the circuit you choose - you will be tripping overcurrent devcies.

If that happens either run new circuit or find a different circuit to connect to.

It is possible if they use a high pressure washer on same circuit it may cause overloading - tell customer those possibilities if you want to fulfill their wish of doing it at the least possible cost.

Lighting circuits may or may not be a good choice to connect to. If they are nearly full loaded - not a good choice. If there is room for more load - it may just work out. If you are tapped into the controlled side of lighting switches though (common at retail stores to only have switched leads out in the retail area, with only limited number of 24/7 "night lights") your equipment you are trying to power will not run when lights are shut down.

You also have to be careful and not just tap into a lighting circuit if it is just a dead end switch leg. The neutral is hard to find in them!:happyyes:
Don't ask how I know that either!:happyno:

 

[kwired]

You also have to be careful and not just tap into a lighting circuit if it is just a dead end switch leg. The neutral is hard to find in them!:happyyes:
Don't ask how I know that either!:happyno:

Should't be as hard if the install was 2011 or 2014 NEC compliant.

 

[Little Bill]

Should't be as hard if the install was 2011 or 2014 NEC compliant.

We're still riding the 08!