Combination AFCI

[geochurchi]

Hi all, what is a combination AFCI? Some people I have been talking with think it is a GFCI/AFCI.
Geo

 

[Dennis Alwon]

Hi all, what is a combination AFCI? Some people I have been talking with think it is a GFCI/AFCI.
Geo

Well that is a type of combination but I believe when you ask what is a combination afci you are talking about an afci that means the unit can detect both a series and parallel arc. All afci breakers sold today are combination type. I can't remember when the first combo unit came out.

 

[Dennis Alwon]

Also a combination afci/gfci is a combination afci along with a gfci that can detect 4-6 ma all built into one breaker. These are relatively new to the market

 

[MannyBurgos]

I second what Dennis said.

 

[Dennis Alwon]

I second what Dennis said.

All in favor-------

 

[mopowr steve]

Breakers that do afci and class A GFCI protection by definition are called Dual Function not combination.
As siemens part number has a DF at the end to denote dual function. Ex. Q120DF

 

[texie]

Breakers that do afci and class A GFCI protection by definition are called Dual Function not combination.
As siemens part number has a DF at the end to denote dual function. Ex. Q120DF

Good point. This is another area of the code that requires careful use of the correct term.

branch/feeder type AFCI, an AFCI that only detects parallel arcing
combination AFCI, an AFCI that detects series and parallel arcing
dual function AFCI/GFCI breaker, a breaker that serves as both GFCI and combination type AFCI.

 

[kwired]

Well that is a type of combination but I believe when you ask what is a combination afci you are talking about an afci that means the unit can detect both a series and parallel arc. All afci breakers sold today are combination type. I can't remember when the first combo unit came out.

IIRC 1999 NEC was the first to require AFCI protection ever. This was the miracle product that would save many lives, then they find out it didn't do everything they claimed it would do. 2002 NEC required a modified version (the combination type), but they were not developed yet so they put a date in there as to what date they would become a requirement (I believe it was Jan 1 2005). It created a lot of confusion for some back then as many thought "combination type" meant it provided both AFCI and GFCI protection, though no such beast has existed until more recently, and the confusion will come about again I'm sure.

Many people out there that still claim the combination type doesn't do everything it is promised to do by the manufacturers.

 

[GoldDigger]

Many people in here make that claim too.

 

[don_resqcapt19]

... It created a lot of confusion for some back then as many thought "combination type" meant it provided both AFCI and GFCI protection, though no such beast has existed until more recently, and the confusion will come about again I'm sure. ...

At the time the code started using the term"combination" type AFCI, there was at least on manufacturer that had branch circuit/feeder type AFCI that also had GFCI protection. This was not the GFP protection that was in all of the branch circuit/feeder types AFCIs but an actual 5mA people protection GFCI. This device was called a combination device. The choice to use that term for the AFCI that is designed to detect both series and parallel arc faults was a poor choice.

 

[kwired]

At the time the code started using the term"combination" type AFCI, there was at least on manufacturer that had branch circuit/feeder type AFCI that also had GFCI protection. This was not the GFP protection that was in all of the branch circuit/feeder types AFCIs but an actual 5mA people protection GFCI. This device was called a combination device. The choice to use that term for the AFCI that is designed to detect both series and parallel arc faults was a poor choice.

Are you sure? I thought Square D just recently was the first to introduce a breaker with both GFCI (class A GFCI) and AFCI features.

I won't disagree that the "combination AFCI" may have been poor choice of wording for a device that provides both series and parallel arc detection, but it is what was done. Maybe a better name would have been AFCI-S, AFCI-P, AFCI-SP or even AFCI - class A,B,C or or similar. Something like that would even allow for other changes that come along and we just change to the new standard of Class D,E, F ....

 

[don_resqcapt19]

Are you sure? I thought Square D just recently was the first to introduce a breaker with both GFCI (class A GFCI) and AFCI features.
....

Very sure. I had that very discussion with Tom Domitrovich of Eaton yesterday. He is one of the engineers who helped Eaton create their original AFCI device.

 

[mopowr steve]

At the time the code started using the term"combination" type AFCI, there was at least on manufacturer that had branch circuit/feeder type AFCI that also had GFCI protection. This was not the GFP protection that was in all of the branch circuit/feeder types AFCIs but an actual 5mA people protection GFCI. This device was called a combination device. The choice to use that term for the AFCI that is designed to detect both series and parallel arc faults was a poor choice.

I do agree with you. I wished it wasn't to late to call a AFCI/GFCI just a combination device.
Just rolls off the tongue better!