Crazy GFCI Breaker

[Little Bill]

I had a thread a year or so ago concerning this GFCI breaker. I thought at the time that a hair dryer being plugged/unplugged from the receptacle that the GFCI breaker protects was causing the breaker to trip. I took the hair dryer to a GFCI receptacle plugged it in & out several times and ran it. I even unplugged it while it was running and it didn't trip the receptacle. So I pretty much ruled out the hair dryer.

The breaker went for quite a while without tripping, but started again. It can go as long as a month or so and not trip. It can also go as little as a day and then trip. I can't find anything or anyway to make it trip other than what would cause one to trip.
Well today I just happened to be near the panel and heard a "click". I looked at the breaker and it was tripped. I went directly to the bathroom and nothing was being used. The hair dryer was plugged in but no one was in there. I ask my wife if she had been in there and she said she hadn't.

Now this GFCI is a Gould/ITE breaker that is about 28 years old. Do you think it's just at the end of life and needs replacing, or should I try and check out the circuit more.
What I plan on doing is just put GFCI receptacles in and replacing the breaker with a regular breaker. The only thing on the circuit is one bath receptacle and one on the front porch. Nothing is plugged in to the porch recep. In fact it only gets used maybe once a year if that. It is recessed in the brick with "flap" covers. It was not raining or any kind of moisture when I caught the breaker tripping.

What I don't understand is why it just trips with no load. I could see if there were a load, even a small one, and the breaker was weak why it might trip. But to trip without a load or a fault of some kind, that I don't understand.:happyno:
If the breaker is just weak why would it reset and hold so long before tripping?

 

[starbolin]

It does one no good to puzzle as to why intermittent problems are intermittent. That is just problems following their nature. My question is why, having not changed the hair dryer or the breaker, do you expect their behavior to be any different?

 

[cad99]

Crazy GFCI Breaker

28 years I'm sure the mov and the rest of the electronics are about shot.gfci recpt and and regular breaker cheap.maybe ohm for giggles it out while your in the can.


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[Sierrasparky]

Whatever you do not replace that GFCI with a plain old breaker and GFCI outlets unless you have found the issue.
Since this is a breaker it may be reacting to a fault somewhere else in the wireing run. If you remove that protection you could be faced with a fire.

Pull that breaker and put a new one in.

At worst it could be RF interference.

 

[Little Bill]

It does one no good to puzzle as to why intermittent problems are intermittent. That is just problems following their nature. My question is why, having not changed the hair dryer or the breaker, do you expect their behavior to be any different?

Well because trying the dryer at a GFCI receptacle didn't cause it to trip = hair dryer good!
I honestly don't think the hair dryer is even a suspect at this time.

The breaker went so long without tripping that I didn't even think about it until just recently when it started tripping again. Also, when I find it tripped it is late or I'm worn out from working all day. It's one of those "I'll change/replace that when I get a chance". Of course I never think about it until it trips again.

But I've got it on my "Honey Do" list now so it will probably happen soon!:happyyes:

 

[PetrosA]

I would check the receptacle in the brick first. Ants and a few other types of bugs love to nest in receptacles and a pile of them between a metal wallcase and the neutral or hot is enough to trip a GFCI. Spider cocoons and mud wasp nests have also been enough to trip GFCIs in my experience. Mud nests especially as they tend to absorb moisture and retain it longer.

 

[ptonsparky]

Whatever you do not replace that GFCI with a plain old breaker and GFCI outlets unless you have found the issue.
Since this is a breaker it may be reacting to a fault somewhere else in the wireing run. If you remove that protection you could be faced with a fire.

Pull that breaker and put a new one in.

At worst it could be RF interference.

:thumbsup:

Do you have a megger? Simple continuity check is not good enough.

 

[Sierrasparky]

:thumbsup:

Do you have a megger? Simple continuity check is not good enough.

Megger will not show a cable eaten by mice were the conductors are well separated.

 

[ActionDave]

But I've got it on my "Honey Do" list now so it will probably happen soon!:happyyes:

One of the best parts of having an electrical problem on the Honey Do list is you don't have to get anything done. Nobody really knows what you are doing. All you have to do is move around between the basement, your truck and shed every twenty minutes or so.
Get asked what is going on and you get to say, "Trying to fix the problem with the bathroom plug." Get pressed a little bit and just start talking like you are talking to another electrician.

Get asked to help do something else and you can just say, "Are you sure you want me to stop trying to fix that problem in the bathroom?"

A thousand times better than putting in new cabinets or painting the porch or even doing the dishes for that matter. The important thing is not to completely solve the problem until you have another electrical problem.

 

[ptonsparky]

Megger will not show a cable eaten by mice were the conductors are well separated.

Nor will a continuity check or a GFCI. Add mouse byproduct, high humidity, etc then the Megger and GFCI work, while a simple continuity check, may not.

 

[Dennis Alwon]

I am going to assume that there must be an intermittent short somewhere between the panel and the receptacles. I would first keep the hair dryer unplugged as well as anything else. You can certainly try changing the breaker but I have had a gfci receptacle in my bathroom for over 25 years when I just decided to change it to a new one.

 

[Little Bill]

I am going to assume that there must be an intermittent short somewhere between the panel and the receptacles. I would first keep the hair dryer unplugged as well as anything else. You can certainly try changing the breaker but I have had a gfci receptacle in my bathroom for over 25 years when I just decided to change it to a new one.

After thinking (more clearly) I'm going to have to retract my statement on the breaker being weak. At least the normal trip mechanism anyway. It never trips under load!
Maybe the electronic part of the breaker is going bad but not the trip mechanism or I would think it would trip under load.

Just for fun I will through my megger on it to see what readings I get there.

 

[Sierrasparky]

After thinking (more clearly) I'm going to have to retract my statement on the breaker being weak. At least the normal trip mechanism anyway. It never trips under load!
Maybe the electronic part of the breaker is going bad but not the trip mechanism or I would think it would trip under load.

Just for fun I will through my megger on it to see what readings I get there.

Why not just replace the breaker with a new one and see if the problem persists.

 

[ActionDave]

Why not just replace the breaker with a new one and see if the problem persists.

Go back and read post #9.

 

[cowboyjwc]

I would check the receptacle in the brick first. Ants and a few other types of bugs love to nest in receptacles and a pile of them between a metal wallcase and the neutral or hot is enough to trip a GFCI. Spider cocoons and mud wasp nests have also been enough to trip GFCIs in my experience. Mud nests especially as they tend to absorb moisture and retain it longer.

That's what I was going to suggest. I also believe that it could just be an old breaker. Of course the more it trips the worse it's going to get, since they are designed to only trip so many times over their life cycle..

 

[readydave8]

That's what I was going to suggest. I also believe that it could just be an old breaker. Of course the more it trips the worse it's going to get, since they are designed to only trip so many times over their life cycle..

And it will tell you on the handle how many trips it's good for--for example, "20"

 

[PetrosA]

And it will tell you on the handle how many trips it's good for--for example, "20"

Good to know. I'll start upselling customers to the 30 trip breakers from here on out.

 

[GoldDigger]

And it will tell you on the handle how many trips it's good for--for example, "20"

And if you do not see that number counting down the remaining trips, the the trip you saw was not stressful enough to affect the breaker life.

 

[Keldra]

Like it has been said you could change the breaker but i would check all outlets affected could be corrosion ants connection issue i have found them all to be true at time or two just a thought

 

[Little Bill]

It has been 10 days since I reset the breaker. I have been very busy and honestly never even think of it until it trips. I will make myself a note (besides my "honey do" note) to check a few things then change whatever is needed.