Flickering/Strobing Recessed Can Lights

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Revi

Member
Location
Atlanta
The old topic on this from a few years ago is closed, so I started a new one. This will help out a lot if you run across the same thing.

Older home, 1970's/80's Kitchen remodel, added 6 5" Halo cans, dimmer to old kitchen central light. When the customer would use their dimmer, the lights would literally strobe like a disco. They only worked on full brightness. No they aren't CFL's, normal incandescent 65 watt bulbs. 600 Watt Dimmer. So naturally, I figured it was just a bad dimmer. I change it out, all is fine until I leave, customer comes home, lights still doing it. So I head back the next day, two different style dimmers, one of the Lutron toggle/slides and one rotary old school style. Change the dimmer again, then my internal voice tells me "You need to know exactly why this is happening" since none of my friends had any idea why that was going on.

Ok, the set up is like this, an overhead tap on the old kitchen light, sends a dead end 14-2 to the first three way, 14-3 across the room to a 4 way switch, blacks tied through to a 14-3 to the other wall to a dead end three way... dimmer on the dead end three way.

I opened up every single box, pulled out all the wiring, nothing in the dead end wrong, nothing in the 4 way wrong, nothing in the overhead wrong, got to the first three way and noticed a couple wire nuts buried way in the back. First one was to the black tied into the line side for the box, second wire nut was a white wire tied into a ground wire.... jackpot. That new line feed coming out of the dead end 12-2 apparently back a few years back, some jackleg tried to pull power to a new light in the added on sun room. Once the brainiac discovered that they didn't have a neutral, they tied the sunroom light neutral in to the ground from the 3way kitchen circuit. Thus, energizing the ground, and sending varying voltages onto the grounding system and hitting the new dimmer, causing it to strobe out.

So, long story short, if you install a dimmer, and it's not CFL's, it's not an over rated dimmer, and your customer's lights are strobing like a disco, pull every tap in that circuit, look to see if some jackleg is using the ground as a current carrying conductor. That's what happened in this particular house.
 

kwired

Electron manager
Location
NE Nebraska
Though use of the EGC was not correct that alone was not the cause of the flickering, there was a weak connection someplace in the circuit at the time of the flickering.

The dimmer only has an EGC connected to the yoke and is not something needed for it to function properly.
 

Revi

Member
Location
Atlanta
Thank you for sharing this story, and welcome to the forum.


I have read the forum for many years, just never had anything to help others with until yesterday. Pleasure to be here.

Also, if someone could explain how and why this phenomena occurs, that would be awesome so that I could better explain it to the customer if I ever run across this again in my lifetime haha.
 

Revi

Member
Location
Atlanta
Though use of the EGC was not correct that alone was not the cause of the flickering, there was a weak connection someplace in the circuit at the time of the flickering.

The dimmer only has an EGC connected to the yoke and is not something needed for it to function properly.

That's what I thought at first too, but all of the switches had been replaced at the same time as well, brand new, by me. Terminal loops around the screws. I did tighten down the panel neutrals and grounds as well, most needed 1/4 to 1/2 a turn. The voltage being sent back onto that ground varied between 45 vac to 100.9 vac, ground to ground off the sunroom light to the ground for the three way system. I'll post a video on youtube showing the strobing, it was truly bizarre. Not a loose connection flicker, but a strobe as if the dimmer was in some sort of "trouble mode" and flashing.
 

kwired

Electron manager
Location
NE Nebraska
I have read the forum for many years, just never had anything to help others with until yesterday. Pleasure to be here.

Also, if someone could explain how and why this phenomena occurs, that would be awesome so that I could better explain it to the customer if I ever run across this again in my lifetime haha.
The EGC that was used as a circuit conductor has a poor connection someplace. A good EGC should still be able to carry the load, it just isn't supposed to be used for a normal circuit conductor because it will raise voltage to true ground on everything attached to the EGC is why it isn't supposed to be used as a normal circuit conductor.
 

Revi

Member
Location
Atlanta
The EGC that was used as a circuit conductor has a poor connection someplace. A good EGC should still be able to carry the load, it just isn't supposed to be used for a normal circuit conductor because it will raise voltage to true ground on everything attached to the EGC is why it isn't supposed to be used as a normal circuit conductor.

It was the smaller size too, not a true 14, I'm sure there was all sorts of stuff happening to it. After 24 years of this, first time I have seen it happen quite like that.
 

kwired

Electron manager
Location
NE Nebraska
It was the smaller size too, not a true 14, I'm sure there was all sorts of stuff happening to it. After 24 years of this, first time I have seen it happen quite like that.
The load doesn't care if it was the neutral or the EGC of the wiring method used, it just wants to have correct voltage to perform as intended. You had some break down in that particular path causing the performance issues.

That path is still a compromised path when it comes to it's intended function of equipment grounding.
 
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