water tank bonding jumper
- Thread starter nizak
- Start date
- Status
- Location
- Placerville, CA, USA
- Occupation
- Retired PV System Designer
If the hot water pipe is likely to become energized, then some sort of bonding of it is required.
At the heater seems a reasonable place to do it in that situation.
And it is likely that there is a dielectric union at the heater. Or at least no conductive path from hot to cold.
At the heater seems a reasonable place to do it in that situation.
And it is likely that there is a dielectric union at the heater. Or at least no conductive path from hot to cold.
Last edited:
mjf
Senior Member
To date, I've never been required to do it.
jxofaltrds
Inspector Mike®
- Location
- Mike P. Columbus Ohio
- Occupation
- ESI, PI, RBO
Every time I say this with my Licensed Plumbing Contractor hat on I am told by others that I am wrong.
You have a potable water system usually divided into two systems. One cold, one hot. Normally these are isolated by two of these.
250.104 Bonding of Piping Systems and Exposed Structural
Steel.
(A) Metal Water Piping.
(1) General. Metal water piping system(s) installed in or
attached to a building or structure shall be bonded to the
service equipment enclosure, the grounded conductor at the
service, the grounding electrode conductor where of sufficient
size, or to the one or more grounding electrodes used.
The bonding jumper(s) shall be sized in accordance with Table
250.66 except as permitted in 250.104(A)(2) and (A)(3).
I brought this up back in maybe 2004 (IAEI meeting) and every jurisdiction in central Ohio requires it.
- Location
- Massachusetts
And normally the two systems are joined together at each shower valve and most washing machine connection valve.
If they follow the NEC they should only require it if the systems are isolated.
jxofaltrds
Inspector Mike®
- Location
- Mike P. Columbus Ohio
- Occupation
- ESI, PI, RBO
And these 'fixtures' meet "The bonding jumper(s) shall be sized in accordance with Table
250.66 except as permitted in 250.104(A)(2) and (A)(3)."?
They require it because they/we/I consider them isolated.
Obviously there is a dielectric in between and the meter will not show continuity. If installed in a system with water in the pipe will the meter show continuity?
Curious, the water in the pipe is not bonding the system together?
- Location
- Massachusetts
Even when they are not isolated.
Do you not see any problem in requiring more than the NEC requires?
jxofaltrds
Inspector Mike®
- Location
- Mike P. Columbus Ohio
- Occupation
- ESI, PI, RBO
Water does not conduct electricity.
You say that they are connected. Fixtures are not metal water piping. You assume that there is a connection between them.
Effective Ground-Fault Current Path. An intentionally
constructed, low-impedance electrically conductive path designed
and intended to carry current under ground-fault conditions
from the point of a ground fault on a wiring system to
the electrical supply source and that facilitates the operation of
the overcurrent protective device or ground-fault detectors on
high-impedance grounded systems.
I doubt if you could provide that information to me IF I was inspecting your job.
On a 200Amp service change you require a #4 to bond the hot/cold water? Even though a 30Amp dryer circuit is the the only way that MAY energize the piping?
- Location
- Massachusetts
If an inspector is incapable of determining if two sections of piping are isolated they have no business inspecting.
Here is a typical shower valve'
Again, if an inspector can't tell this valve is connecting the hot and cold water systems perhaps they should get a job at Walmart as a greeter.
jxofaltrds
Inspector Mike®
- Location
- Mike P. Columbus Ohio
- Occupation
- ESI, PI, RBO
If an inspector is incapable of determining if two sections of piping are isolated they have no business inspecting.
Here is a typical shower valve'
Again, if an inspector can't tell this valve is connecting the hot and cold water systems perhaps they should get a job at Walmart as a greeter.
Since the screw being used is not allowed that makes me question the whole job. And the fixture is not secured. What about the Teflon tape? Can you tell me that there is enough metal to metal contact for an effective path?
You would ask me to approve the bonding of all metal water piping via one fixture?
"The points of attachment of the bonding jumper(s) shall be accessible."
- Location
- Illinois
- Occupation
- retired electrician
So based on that reasoning, you must also require a bonding jumper at each and ever joint in the water piping system. Pipe joints are not designed or tested as a fault clearing path.
- Location
- Massachusetts
Actually I am going to ask you to approve the water line bonding that is relying on not one, but dozens of untested and unlisted fixtures and fittings that if any one of them is removed could cause other sections to become unbonded.
Or as Don pointed out a bonding jumper is required around each and every fitting in the water lines.
jxofaltrds
Inspector Mike®
- Location
- Mike P. Columbus Ohio
- Occupation
- ESI, PI, RBO
They are part of the metal water piping! :slaphead:
jxofaltrds
Inspector Mike®
- Location
- Mike P. Columbus Ohio
- Occupation
- ESI, PI, RBO
"Because many plumbing fixtures use nonmetallic components, bonding both the hot and cold piping systems helps ensure that both are electrically continuous."
http://iaeimagazine.org/magazine/2005/11/16/bonding-metal-piping-systems/
But most of their body is made of metal of some sort. Interior may be plastic. I have never taken one apart so IDK.
- Location
- Illinois
- Occupation
- retired electrician
It doesn't matter what they are a part of...a screwed joint on the pipe itself is not any different from a srewed connection to a metallic faucet body. If you are saying that the metallic faucet body and its joints are not suitable for bonding, then you also have to say that the pipe joints themselves are not suitable for bonding. You can't have it both ways.
Also since solder is not permitted as a connection method for bonding or grounding conductors, how do you permit a single point of bonding to a copper water pipe system installed with sweated joints?
Last edited:
jxofaltrds
Inspector Mike®
- Location
- Mike P. Columbus Ohio
- Occupation
- ESI, PI, RBO
The NEC calls the pipe and the fittings a system.(" (1) General. Metal water piping system(s)") Fittings and solder are part of the piping system, not 'bonding conductors'. If fittings were NOT part then all systems would be limited to either 10' or 20' (standard length of pipe).
Fixtures are supplied by the system.
PLUMBING FIXTURE. A receptacle or device that is either permanently or temporarily connected to the water distribution system of the premises and demands a supply of water therefrom; discharges wastewater, liquid-borne waste materials or sewage either directly or indirectly to the drainage system of the premises; or requires both a water supply connection and a discharge to the drainage system of the premises.
604.3 Water distribution system design criteria.
The water distribution system shall be designed, and pipe sizes shall be selected such that under conditions of peak demand, the capacities at the fixture supply pipe outlets shall not be less than shown in Table 604.3. The minimum flow rate and flow pressure provided to fixtures and appliances not listed in Table 604.3 shall be in accordance with the manufacturer?s installation instructions.
SECTION 607 HOT WATER SUPPLY SYSTEM
607.1 Where required.
In residential occupancies, hot water shall be supplied to all plumbing fixtures and equipment utilized for bathing, washing, culinary purposes, cleansing, laundry or building maintenance. In nonresidential occupancies, hot water shall be supplied for culinary purposes, cleansing, laundry or building maintenance purposes. In nonresidential occupancies, hot water or tempered water shall be supplied for bathing and washing purposes. Tempered water shall be delivered from public hand-washing facilities. Tempered water shall be supplied through a water temperature limiting device that conforms to ASSE 1070 and shall limit the tempered water to a maximum of 110?F (43?C). This provision shall not supersede the requirement for protective shower valves in accordance with Section 424.3.
- Location
- Illinois
- Occupation
- retired electrician
Mike,
It is not about what those definitions say, it is about the physics of the connection, and the physics does not change just because we call one metallic connection part of the water piping system and the other part of a plumbing fixture. If it is conductive enough to provide the bond when the connection is part of the piping system, it is also conductive enough to provide the bond when the connection is part of the plumbing fixture.
It is not about what those definitions say, it is about the physics of the connection, and the physics does not change just because we call one metallic connection part of the water piping system and the other part of a plumbing fixture. If it is conductive enough to provide the bond when the connection is part of the piping system, it is also conductive enough to provide the bond when the connection is part of the plumbing fixture.
- Status