Electrical Certification required for industrial maintanance?

[blazini]

New to the forum but I joined to ask about "certifications" and "licenses" because I hear it get thrown around quite a bit by people that probably don't have any business speaking on the subject.

I've heard things like "3-phase certification" (which I don't believe to exist specifically), and people claiming to be "certified electricians" who have never worked for electrical contractors. That doesn't necessarily concern me, but I have had what I do brought into question recently.

I'm A lead mechanic in a factory. A contractor handles all of our wiring and bringing power to machinery. A lot of times they won't actually hook the machine itself up or they tend to be a bit weary of it. I'll sometimes wire machines in, or re-phase the motors myself. I have no "formal" electrical training other than some Vo-Tech which I didn't complete, just on-the-job. This is all 480v I tend to only work after a fused disconnect or breaker after I can verify everything is dead. I've been told by someone who claims to have some sort of liscense that I need to be certified to change fuses in a disconnect since one side would be live after throwing the knife. I don't see how this is since every disconnect I can think of is fed from it's own breaker which could also be flipped.

Nonetheless it makes me curious as to whether something would be required that I'm unaware of. I'm in PA btw.

 

[ActionDave]

Welcome to the forum.

So you are asking if you are allowed to do something not how to do something, no? PA is a unique place. There are some members that reside there that can chime in if they are not still out on holiday.

 

[petersonra]

"certified" just means you have a certificate of some sort attesting to some level of training or competence. depending on who issued the certificate, it may mean something or nothing.

"licensed" means some licensing authority issued you a license. again, it may be meaningful, it may not.

 

[blazini]

"certified" just means you have a certificate of some sort attesting to some level of training or competence. depending on who issued the certificate, it may mean something or nothing.

"licensed" means some licensing authority issued you a license. again, it may be meaningful, it may not.

im just asking if there is a requirement.

 

[ron]

From what I read, there is no statewide PA requirement for a license or to be certified.

Different jurisdictions have local requirements, such as Philly, Pittsburgh, etc.

If there are few licensing requirements in the state, there may be no documentation of who has to work on what systems / voltages.

From the federal govt, unqualified personnel can reset a circuit breaker or replace fuses https://www.osha.gov/pls/oshaweb/owadisp.show_document?p_table=INTERPRETATIONS&p_id=24009

Qualified is defined in NFPA 70 (NEC) and 70E

 

[petersonra]

im just asking if there is a requirement.

OSHA requires that one be "qualified" to perform work.

The employer determines what constitutes "qualified".

In general, no certification or license automatically makes one qualified, nor does the lack of any certification or license make one not qualified.

 

[iceworm]

I can't comment on PA law. I can tell you what the State of Alaska says

... I'm A lead mechanic in a factory. A contractor handles all of our wiring and bringing power to machinery. A lot of times they won't actually hook the machine itself up or they tend to be a bit weary of it. I'll sometimes wire machines in, or re-phase the motors myself. I have no "formal" electrical training other than some Vo-Tech which I didn't complete, just on-the-job. ....

State law requires any new work done per the nec requires a "certificate of fittness" - that is a state issued journeyman electrician's license. I'd say connecting the machine falls under that.

... I've been told by someone who claims to have some sort of liscense that I need to be certified to change fuses in a disconnect since one side would be live after throwing the knife. ....

This would not be considered "new work subject to the NEC", rather maintenance. For this one would need to be "qualified". As already mentioned, see NFPA for definition of "qualified" - doesn't say anything about needing to be a journeyman electrician.

Interestingly, after the installation, if a 4160kv motor failed, and was replaced (by the millwrights), reconnection does not require a journeyman electrician - again requires "qualified". Which makes sense. Passing the test to become a journeyman electrician does not mean that one has the skills to do the specialized work required.

Yes, there are fuzzy parts where the AHJ representative (inspector) rules

ice

 

[tom baker]

This is a state or local government issue. In WA, electricians are certified and contractors licensed. If you are the full time employee of the property owner you can do any electrical work, but permits and inspections are still required. Some companies or governments require electrical certification as a job requirement. In WA only one electrical certification is required state wide.

 

[blazini]

Thanks for the responses. I figured it wouldn't be clean cut, seems like it's mostly up to interpretation

I can't comment on PA law. I can tell you what the State of Alaska says


State law requires any new work done per the nec requires a "certificate of fittness" - that is a state issued journeyman electrician's license. I'd say connecting the machine falls under that.

Still seems a bit fuzzy to me. If for example the electrician were to install a receptical and leave the site, and when I plugged it in and found motors spinning backwards I'd switch 2 legs, likely on the machine side. Is there really a difference as to whether I stuck a plug into a receptical then swapped wires in a machine cabinet or if I bolted the lugs down/stuck wires into a contactor myself if it were hardwired?

At least half the time I've seen the Master Electrician leave a machine spinning backwards and had to correct it so it seems pretty hit and miss no matter what anyway.

 

[iceworm]

Still seems a bit fuzzy to me. ...

AHJ rep involved interperting state law - Yep, that may well be the definition of "fuzzy".

... If for example the electrician were to install a receptical and leave the site, and when I plugged it in and found motors spinning backwards I'd switch 2 legs, likely on the machine side. Is there really a difference as to whether I stuck a plug into a receptical then swapped wires in a machine cabinet or if I bolted the lugs down/stuck wires into a contactor myself if it were hardwired? ....

Practically speaking - once the AHJ rep has left the building - all is maintenance.

... At least half the time I've seen the Master Electrician leave a machine spinning backwards and had to correct it so it seems pretty hit and miss no matter what anyway.

The AHJ rep is gone. See above. However, in my opinion, this is still new work. The job is not done yet.

This whole idea of "leave a machine spinning backwards" brings to mind:

Hydraulic pumps spinning backwards and no relief in the circuit
Conveyors running backwards
Pumps spinning the impellor off​

I'm not seeing a qualified worker/journeyman issue. Rather, you need better QC in the commissioning. Don't turn the EC loose until the job is done. And done includes energization/rotation check.

ice