NJ Rehab Subcode

[Hacks]

I have a question about the New Jersey rehab subcode. The last thread was ruined by somebody who wanted to tell me what he would do (and wouldn't give up on that) instead of what code requires me to do. I don't think it's fair that my question goes unanswered, so I started a new thread and hopefully we can stay on the topic and discuss code requirements only. This is a code forum, and knowing the code is never a bad thing, even if it's more lenient than you personally like.

Again, the disclaimer: My question is about the NJ rehab subcode. I know many people will say "Upgrade the grounding, it's the right thing to do!" but I would like to know the actual code requirements based on the NJ Rehab Subcode, since that is all the customer is willing to pay for (and rightly so).

I have a customer who is selling his house. The buyers want him to replace a 200A FPE disconnect on the outside of the house because it's an FPE (it's also rusted and in bad shape), he agreed to have that done.

My concern is the way it's setup. The disconnect is fed from the meter base above it with 3 wires. Then a 4-wire SER cable runs from the disconnect into the house to a MLO panel in the basement. All that is fine.

The issue is that the only grounding is a conductor from the water pipe to the ground bar inside of that MLO panel. The outside disconnect has no GEC running to it, only the EGC inside of the SER cable.

The NJ rehab subcode allows us to install a new panel or disconnect without having to upgrade the grounding, which I do often and it always passes. The problem here is that there is no GEC at all, so this is new territory for me.

I told the customer that the inspector might give us a problem, but he doesn't want to pay for the grounding if code doesn't require it, especially since his basement is finished and running the GEC will not be easy.

Has anyone in NJ come across a situation like this or know the rehab subcode well?

 

[augie47]

I would hope this link in the earlier thread would contain the answer to your question:
http://www.state.nj.us/dca/divisions/codes/codreg/pdf_regs/njac_5_23_6.pdf

 

[Hacks]

I would hope this link in the earlier thread would contain the answer to your question:
http://www.state.nj.us/dca/divisions/codes/codreg/pdf_regs/njac_5_23_6.pdf

I've read the rehab subcode in the past (or should I say skimmed thru and read the parts applicable to my current questions) and I am still not sure of the answer to this particular question. Just like an electrical code question, there's more to it than just a link to the NEC.

From what I understand, I can replace the disconnect without upgrading the grounding. But I know there are NJ inspectors and others here who understand the rehab code far better than me.

 

[Little Bill]

I read the other thread. What I'm having a hard time understanding is why you think you need to tear up any wall/ceiling covering in the basement. The GEC would only need to be outside at the disconnect or in the meter base if your POCO allows it. You don't need to do anything inside as far as the GEC is concerned.

I'm not telling/suggesting you do anything as far as adding the GES, because I certainly don't know the NJ rehab (or any NJ code). I'm just saying it wouldn't be as bad as you think since you wouldn't need to tear up anything inside.

 

[Hacks]

I read the other thread. What I'm having a hard time understanding is why you think you need to tear up any wall/ceiling covering in the basement. The GEC would only need to be outside at the disconnect or in the meter base if your POCO allows it. You don't need to do anything inside as far as the GEC is concerned.

I'm not telling/suggesting you do anything as far as adding the GES, because I certainly don't know the NJ rehab (or any NJ code). I'm just saying it wouldn't be as bad as you think since you wouldn't need to tear up anything inside.

Running a GEC from the outside disconnect across the finished basement to the water pipe would require quite a bit of work as well as a few holes in the drywall.

 

[John120/240]

Running a GEC from the outside disconnect across the finished basement to the water pipe would require quite a bit of work as well as a few holes in the drywall.

I would argue that the water pipe is not accessible, Install two ground rods & be done with it.

 

[Hacks]

I would argue that the water pipe is not accessible, Install two ground rods & be done with it.

:lol:

Would that be one of those shirt pocket rules that you mentioned in your signature?

 

[John120/240]

Around here the AHJ Inspectors exercise common sense. Two ground rods are acceptable when/if the water pipe is inaccessible or PVC plastic pipe was used. On an existing installation like yours when installing the GEC would require $500 in sheetrock & paint repairs two ground rods will suffice. Like I said common sense by our AHJ's , maybe those in your town are more stubborn.

 

[Little Bill]

Running a GEC from the outside disconnect across the finished basement to the water pipe would require quite a bit of work as well as a few holes in the drywall.

I wouldn't run it to the water pipe. I would add ground rods then let the existing conductor to the pipe just be a bonding jumper.

 

[Hacks]

Around here the AHJ Inspectors exercise common sense. Two ground rods are acceptable when/if the water pipe is inaccessible or PVC plastic pipe was used. On an existing installation like yours when installing the GEC would require $500 in sheetrock & paint repairs two ground rods will suffice. Like I said common sense by our AHJ's , maybe those in your town are more stubborn.

I'm not worried about what inspectors think or whether they are stubborn or not.

I'm just asking a code question.

Code.

 

[Hacks]

I wouldn't run it to the water pipe. I would add ground rods then let the existing conductor to the pipe just be a bonding jumper.

My question is whether the NJ Rehab Subcode will allow the upgrade of an existing service disconnect without updating the grounding.

 

[goldstar]

I believe it will. One of the reasons the Rehab Code was formulated was so that doing a simple job (like renovating a 2nd fl kitchen or the like) would not require you to rip open ceilings and walls causing more damage than is required.

Now, in your case, while getting opinions here in the Forum is always a good thing and increases your knowledge base, you have to understand that they are just that - opinions. You would be much better off contacting the NJ DCA Code Assistance Unit for their interpretation of the Rehab Code section :

http://www.state.nj.us/dca/divisions/codes/offices/codeassistance.html

That way, when you get an answer, and if your inspector has a differing opinion you can have him contact the person you spoke with at the CAU and have them work it out (make sure you have a pen and paper ready when you call so you can write down important facts and especially the name of the person you speak with). The inspector can't make you do something just because he believes it's the right thing to do. He has to cite a Code section. However, in many cases it's quicker and a lot less expensive to just go ahead and do what they want rather than fight the issue and cause a lot of heartburn.

For the record, the grounding belongs inside the disconnect, not the MLO panel, irrespective of whether it was done that way to begin with.

Just my opinion

 

[Dennis Alwon]

Can the grounding electrode conductor run on the outside of the building attached down near the ground?? I know this is not your question but you also know that we cannot answer for the inspector. It does sound like the intent of the code is to avoid what you may have to do so my guess is you don't have to.