Cabinet lighting

[keith gigabyte]

I find myself gettin into upper end residential renovations. Problem is everyone wants under and some over cabinet lights. Currently I leave a Romex whip at wall cabinet bottom edge then connect to lights at trim out. Lots of owners want puck lights... Another delema.


Ideas? Hints? Things to avoid?

 

[ceknight]

I find myself gettin into upper end residential renovations. Problem is everyone wants under and some over cabinet lights. .....Ideas? Hints? Things to avoid?

That isn't a problem, it's an opportunity.

A higher-end kitchen reno should come with cabinet lighting details worked out before rough, and you wire for it accordingly. The thing to avoid, IMO, is stubbing out a piece of romex without knowing in advance what you'll be installing.

 

[keith gigabyte]

Agree with everything u said. My problem is customer says we are putting in cab Lites but don't know what yet.... But we need to hang board tommorow


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[mopowr steve]

Everyone seems to be a custom design depending on what they actually want and what kind of access for wiring you have.
One of the more common ways I do it, is to put receptacle(s) horizontally just above the cabinets to plug in the transformer(s) on a switch. If dimmers are desired there is a duplex receptacle designed to meet code that only allows a plug with a mating notch to be inserted.
Now you can either install LV wire rated for in wall to stub out above and below upper cabinets for connection of cabinet lighting that utilizes a track that the wire snaps into or in the case of some newer LED strip lights the ribbon cable that is used can most of the time be ran down the space between cabinets ( as the styles of cabinets usually leaves a gap about 3/8" between individual cabinets ).
I guess you just have to find what works for you depending on the product you like to use.

 

[ceknight]

Agree with everything u said. My problem is customer says we are putting in cab Lites but don't know what yet.... But we need to hang board tommorow

In that case you might consider stubbing in some thermostat cable also, and dangle the other end in the basement in case they go transformer on you.

Make your life potentially easier and put it anywhere you think you'll need it, and if you don't end up needing it just leave it in the wall. Even if it gets abandoned it's much cheaper than adding it later.

 

[PetrosA]

You need to take the reins on this. Talk to the customer, explain the options, find out what they expect out of the lighting and demo various types if you need to - and do this before the walls are closed up. If they still can't make up their minds, prepare them for the reality that you may have to cut the drywall back out or they may end up paying lots extra for you to fish the proper cables to the required places once the tile is in and you have no other choices.

 

[electricalist]

I agree they will work you to death if they can get open ended options at your expense.
I wouldnt do anything with the under cabinets until you get the actual lay out ,,,unless its gonna have tile on the wall,,its easy to patch and cheap compared to a for sure answer on dimentions. If i leave a wire in the wall for a u/c switchleg I staple it above the sabc plugs so its easy to find. I use 12/2 from o/c to o/c and sometimes the switching was on the drawings but,,,,its custom,,,so if its reasonable it doesnt hurt to have jumpers to all the o/c lighting,,,,lutron can lead to these things..

 

[tbakelis]

Led tape lights

Led tape lights

I havent installed anything but the LED tape lights that come on the 3M tape for about 2 yrs now. Fantastic lights. Dimmable too. Run the thermostat wire (all home runs) into a cab location as well as the romex switchable leg. Don't use 14/3 to switch 2 sections... LEDs sometimes act kooky sharing neutral...

 

[tx2step]

I havent installed anything but the LED tape lights that come on the 3M tape for about 2 yrs now. Fantastic lights. Dimmable too. Run the thermostat wire (all home runs) into a cab location as well as the romex switchable leg. Don't use 14/3 to switch 2 sections... LEDs sometimes act kooky sharing neutral...

Those sound interesting! What brand of LED tape lights are you using?

Where do you get them?

Is there a website for technical information about them?

Any other tricks or important details on how to install them most effectively?

 

[1793]

Those sound interesting! What brand of LED tape lights are you using?

Where do you get them?

Is there a website for technical information about them?

Any other tricks or important details on how to install them most effectively?

I have used products from this company and they are easy to work with TheLEDLight.com

 

[tx2step]

I have used products from this company and they are easy to work with TheLEDLight.com

Thanks for the info!

They make several models of LED strips -- which ones have you used?

For under-cabinet lights, what number (density) of LEDs per meter do you use?

How do you usually install/attach them under the cabinet so they'll stay there trouble-free?

 

[PetrosA]

Thanks for the info!

They make several models of LED strips -- which ones have you used?

For under-cabinet lights, what number (density) of LEDs per meter do you use?

How do you usually install/attach them under the cabinet so they'll stay there trouble-free?

I generally use 24V LEDs for undercabinet lighting. It's almost certain that you won't have any issues with voltage drop or long tape runs that way.

I don't pay attention to LED density, but rather to the lumens-per-foot number. You need to determine whether they're being used as task lighting or decorative lighting, then choose a tape that fulfills that need. For task lighting I don't even look at tape with less than 180 lumens per foot.

The tapes I've used all have backer tape on them and I install them directly to the underside/inside of the cabinets. The main step is to thoroughly clean the surface first. Usually I use a foam glass cleaner followed by an acetone cleaner for that step depending on whether they're new or used cabinets.

 

[darekelec]

Our experience with customers is they will not know what kin of light to put in till last minute. We run switched leg of bx to under sink and branch out from there to every corner of cabinet. If light fixtures are LV we install transformer. If line voltage we splice cables in JB.
Led tape prevails nowadays and I recommend it to clients. we buy Jesco
Joke is I love those cheapos from eBay
http://www.ebay.com/itm/331495858011?_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l2649&ssPageName=STRK:MEBIDX:IT
they have so many settings you can adjust them perfectly to your liking and kitchen decor.

 

[tbakelis]

Most of my customers will look at the LED tape light next to the florescent and be amazed by it. I typically buy it by the roll... Then upon trim out cut to length and solder the leads on... Clean the under side of cabinet well and then peel and stick. One way street... Don't pull off and reattach because they'll call you a month later saying it's falling off! I also install the tape towards the front of cabinet.. So as to minimize seeing diodes against backsplash.

 

[1793]

Thanks for the info!

They make several models of LED strips -- which ones have you used?

For under-cabinet lights, what number (density) of LEDs per meter do you use?

How do you usually install/attach them under the cabinet so they'll stay there trouble-free?

I have used the 5050 60-LPM Non Waterproof flex

I clean the bottom of the cabinet, like others have said, and stick them up - no problems

 

[Dennis Alwon]

I havent installed anything but the LED tape lights that come on the 3M tape for about 2 yrs now. Fantastic lights. Dimmable too. Run the thermostat wire (all home runs) into a cab location as well as the romex switchable leg. Don't use 14/3 to switch 2 sections... LEDs sometimes act kooky sharing neutral...

T-stat wire ???? Not sure that is compliant although I think it is class 2 wiring. I have used class 2 wiring but a higher gauge. Of course we use longer runs in other areas of the home.

As far as I can tell from Southwire the T-stat wire is class 2 by listed for thermostat control

? Thermostat Wire is a class 2 power-limited circuit cable for use in thermostatcontrol applicationsAPPLICATI ON S Suitable for use as follows:? 150 Voltage rating per NEC Article 725? UL listed as per UL Standard 13? Meets UL 1581 Vertical Tray Flame Test (FT-1)STA ND A R D S & REFERE N CES? Solid coppe

 

[tx2step]

I generally use 24V LEDs for undercabinet lighting. It's almost certain that you won't have any issues with voltage drop or long tape runs that way.

I don't pay attention to LED density, but rather to the lumens-per-foot number. You need to determine whether they're being used as task lighting or decorative lighting, then choose a tape that fulfills that need. For task lighting I don't even look at tape with less than 180 lumens per foot.

The tapes I've used all have backer tape on them and I install them directly to the underside/inside of the cabinets. The main step is to thoroughly clean the surface first. Usually I use a foam glass cleaner followed by an acetone cleaner for that step depending on whether they're new or used cabinets.

What brand(s) & model(s) of LED tape lights do you use? Where do you get it? Most of what I've been looking at is 12VDC. I haven't installed any of this stuff yet, and I am a little worried about voltage drop. I don't know where to find the 24V stuff yet

Or what to look for...or look out for...in purchasing & installing these LED tape lights & power supplies.

What kind of wire do you use for the 24V wiring?

I'm looking at installing (adding) the undercabinet lighting mostly in existing homes...Do you usually run the 24V wiring through the walls, or down the inside corner of the cabinet?

Thanks for sharing your experience and knowledge!

 

[tx2step]

Most of my customers will look at the LED tape light next to the florescent and be amazed by it. I typically buy it by the roll... Then upon trim out cut to length and solder the leads on... Clean the under side of cabinet well and then peel and stick. One way street... Don't pull off and reattach because they'll call you a month later saying it's falling off! I also install the tape towards the front of cabinet.. So as to minimize seeing diodes against backsplash.

Thanks for the info!!!

What brand(s) & Model(s) of LED tape (and power supplies) do you use? Where do you get them?

 

[tx2step]

I have used the 5050 60-LPM Non Waterproof flex

I clean the bottom of the cabinet, like others have said, and stick them up - no problems

What kind of wire do you use?

When adding undercabinet lighting in existing homes, do you snake the wiring in the walls or run it down the inside corner of the cabinets? A lot of the houses I'll be looking at adding undercabinet LED lights in will have tile or stone backsplashes, so I need to figure out how to get the wiring in with the least amount of work & risk of damage to existing finishes...and still look good...and be able to do it by myself...

Thanks for sharing your experience & knowledge!!!

 

[tx2step]

T-stat wire ???? Not sure that is compliant although I think it is class 2 wiring. I have used class 2 wiring but a higher gauge. Of course we use longer runs in other areas of the home.

As far as I can tell from Southwire the T-stat wire is class 2 by listed for thermostat control

What type and gauge wire do you use (and see others using)?

If adding undercabinet LEDs in existing homes, do you/they snake the wiring through the wall, or install it down the inside corner of the cabinets? Most of the houses I'll be looking at installing undercounter LED's in will have tile or stone backsplashes. I want to figure out how to run the wiring with the least amount of work or risk of damage to existing finishes. And I need to be able to install everything by myself...

Thanks for sharing your experience and knowledge!!!