Use of SER Type cable in crawl space

[tsherrod]

I am installing service for a modular that was just sent in TN. I have not been able to find a sufficient answer of whether or not I can use SER type service entrance cable from the panel inside to the disconnect if it is run under the house. The modular is being set on a permanent foundation. I have only seen them run up in attics and don't want to run PVC below if I can use this. Anybody know?

http://www.homedepot.com/p/Southwir...minum-SER-Wire-By-the-Foot-13107899/205001904

 

[kwired]

Did you read art 338 parts 10 and 12?

 

[tsherrod]

Did you read art 338 parts 10 and 12?

I read all of art 338. I am on 2011 code. I have read a couple of forums on it too. I am mostly concerned because I have found conflicting information and opinions and need to run about 100ft of it.

 

[mjf]

SER is suitable for wet locations.

 

[kwired]

You are running from the disconnect to the house panel - this means it is a feeder and not a service cable so 338.10(B) applies, there it says you must have an insulated grounded conductor and bare conductor is to only be used for equipment grounding purposes. You must also watch temp ratings if run in thermal insulation. That is about all it says for uses permitted section, for uses not permitted only things mentioned concern protection from physical damage, it can not be used underground (with or without raceway), and a mentioning of exterior branch circuits or feeders that doesn't apply to your install.

If it doesn't specifically prohibit what you want to do you can do it - you do need to watch a few details such as the mentioned protection from physical damage, running underground, or consequences of running it in thermal insulation.

 

[augie47]

Be very careful with the wording "modular home".
Some manufactured home manufacturers like to refer to their product as a modular home.
Make sure what you have does not fit the definition in Art 550.
(In TN, manufactured homes have a HUD sticker on the outside, true modular homes have a "green seal" on the interior...
if it came in on it's own axles & wheels chances are it's 'manufactured' )
If your product falls in the "Manufactured Home" category, 550.33 requires the grounding conductor to be insulated color coded conductors and the bare equipment grounding conductor in SE cable is not acceptable.

 

[kwired]

Be very careful with the wording "modular home".
Some manufactured home manufacturers like to refer to their product as a modular home.
Make sure what you have does not fit the definition in Art 550.
(In TN, manufactured homes have a HUD sticker on the outside, true modular homes have a "green seal" on the interior...
if it came in on it's own axles & wheels chances are it's 'manufactured' )
If your product falls in the "Manufactured Home" category, 550.33 requires the grounding conductor to be insulated color coded conductors and the bare equipment grounding conductor in SE cable is not acceptable.

That is one situation I missed but probably should have thought of that would possibly prohibit the SE cable for OP's application. Not that the SE cable would be prohibited by anything in 338 but the requirement for an insulated EGC is the issue there.

I will also say that there possibly is a SE cable that is still acceptable - but maybe is not one that you commonly see stocked at supply house or home centers. Kind of depends on if there is a listing issue as it relates to cable construction and or if they make a SE cable that doesn't have any bare conductors in it.

 

[augie47]

Agree. I've not see a 4 insulated conductor SE but it may be manufactured.
Its one of those "say what" situations. I can run SER as a feeder to my stick built house but not my manufactured home .....

 

[jxofaltrds]

Agree. I've not see a 4 insulated conductor SE but it may be manufactured.
Its one of those "say what" situations. I can run SER as a feeder to my stick built house but not my manufactured home .....

Having performed over 1000 'sets' years ago, lets say that I have used this to 'allow' a safe installation.

By special permission, the authority having jurisdiction may
waive specific requirements in this Code or permit alternative
methods where it is assured that equivalent objectives can be
achieved by establishing and maintaining effective safety.

Most of these installs were by rural folk who thought they were installing the proper wire.

 

[augie47]

I can certainly understand your doing so but it's a slippery slope I have so far avoided

 

[jxofaltrds]

I can certainly understand your doing so but it's a slippery slope I have so far avoided

Understood. But I believe that by doing so that I was:

90.1 Purpose
(A) Practical Safeguarding. The purpose of this Code is the
practical safeguarding of persons and property from hazards
arising from the use of electricity.

Now let's take the rest of it.

This Code is not intended as
a design specification or an instruction manual for untrained
persons.

Am I saying that it is OK to ignore a code section? NO.

Just that 90 gives inspectors the ability to use good judgment if the intent of the code has been met.

Or are we to perform a military basic training type inspection when we perform our duties? (White Glove)

 

[kwired]

Understood. But I believe that by doing so that I was:

90.1 Purpose
(A) Practical Safeguarding. The purpose of this Code is the
practical safeguarding of persons and property from hazards
arising from the use of electricity.

Now let's take the rest of it.

This Code is not intended as
a design specification or an instruction manual for untrained
persons.

Am I saying that it is OK to ignore a code section? NO.

Just that 90 gives inspectors the ability to use good judgment if the intent of the code has been met.

Or are we to perform a military basic training type inspection when we perform our duties? (White Glove)

I understand, I don't agree this is a situation where you should use that though, it should be reserved for when the written requirements are not all that clear - this requirement is clear, the fact some homeowner doesn't know any better is not good enough reason to let them off the hook, and is even less reason if they call themselves an electrical professional.

 

[tsherrod]

Thanks guys.

 

[iwire]

Having performed over 1000 'sets' years ago, lets say that I have used this to 'allow' a safe installation.

By special permission, the authority having jurisdiction may
waive specific requirements in this Code or permit alternative
methods where it is assured that equivalent objectives can be
achieved by establishing and maintaining effective safety.

Most of these installs were by rural folk who thought they were installing the proper wire.

Special permission requires the written approval of the AHJ. Has anyone ever seen true special permission?


From article 100

Special Permission. The written consent of the authority having jurisdiction.

 

[iwire]

Understood. But I believe that by doing so that I was:

Are you an inspector or are you the AHJ?

Did you provide written permission with your signature on it?

 

[jxofaltrds]

Are you an inspector or are you the AHJ?

Did you provide written permission with your signature on it?

You are correct. I made an error. Should have had the AHJ give written permission.

 

[kwired]

An inspector may be given permission by the AHJ he represents to make that decision - may have some guidelines to follow when doing so, may even be a situation where he needs to discuss it with his supervisor or other peers and they make a decision based on more then just one person's opinion.