Strobe notification with battery back up don't exist?

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baronson

Member
Location
Washington State, at the beach
wiring an ADA cabin for the State Parks and building inspector wants to see a strobe/ smokie. He wants the strobe to operate with no power. I have searched high and low and from what I can tell there isn't a device because a strobe must be powered by AC only....no battery back up. Anybody have any bright ideas how to make this work? It seems like a realistic expectation
 
kwired

kwired

Electron manager
Location
NE Nebraska
sparkyrick said:
Every fire alarm system I've installed runs on battery back-up during power failure. Why must the strobe be AC only?
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Fire alarms do run on battery back up, smoke alarms may not. I'm guessing OP has smoke alarms and needs one with a strobe for ADA reasons. They may not be available or are harder to find in a unit that operates on batteries. I have not installed many but seem to recall all I have installed operated on 120VAC.
 
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GoldDigger

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Location
Placerville, CA, USA
Occupation
Retired PV System Designer
kwired said:
Fire alarms do run on battery back up, smoke alarms may not. I'm guessing OP has smoke alarms and needs one with a strobe for ADA reasons. They may not be available or are harder to find in a unit that operates on batteries. I have not installed many but seem to recall all I have installed operated on 120VAC.
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In which case perhaps a small UPS would be the only solution?
 
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GrayHair

Senior Member
Location
Nashville, TN
Granted, I've been out of it for several years, but I agree, what he wants doesn't exist. The inrush current for a strobe would be far exceed the capability of any reasonable battery in a single/multiple-station smoke.


He may be trying to apply stand-by requirements for "in-room" strobes connected to a hotel fire alarm system. From your description, I see a residential living unit where no "system" devices of any type are required; only single/multiple-station smokes.

Can you ask for specific code he is referencing "so you can make sure the get a suitable unit"? If he comes up will something, barring "local" amendments, you'll probably find it isn't even addressed. IIRC, UL217 does not address visual whatsoever.

I think your biggest problem will be how to educate this inspector. Have all appropriate code books ready with your references marked. I used to open with, "Man, has this been a learning experience!".
 
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baronson

Member
Location
Washington State, at the beach
Grayhair, you are spot on. Since this was a change order and it is the engineer who is requesting it, I'm going to try Golddigger's suggestion and get a UPS. I'm thinking of cutting in an outlet on that smokie/strobe circuit, get an inexpensive UPS, plug it in and see what happens.
 
kwired

kwired

Electron manager
Location
NE Nebraska
baronson said:
Grayhair, you are spot on. Since this was a change order and it is the engineer who is requesting it, I'm going to try Golddigger's suggestion and get a UPS. I'm thinking of cutting in an outlet on that smokie/strobe circuit, get an inexpensive UPS, plug it in and see what happens.
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UPS for a smoke alarm?

What are chances the UPS battery is good when/if the alarm is called upon to do it's job? Sure we may have a battery condition alarm on the UPS, but the occupant probably will need a strobe to indicate that condition as well or it may go undetected.:(
 
mgookin

mgookin

Senior Member
Location
Fort Myers, FL
Can we get a little more info on the cabin?

Is this just one cabin like the gatehouse at the entrance?

Is it one of many transient residential cabins where the general public can rent it and sleep there?

Something else?
 
kwired

kwired

Electron manager
Location
NE Nebraska
baronson said:
I'm trying to come up with an inexpensive option to back up power to 1 strobe light in a 216 sq ft State Park cabin.
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Do they want emergency egress lighting as well? Just asking - kind of makes no sense to require the strobe to work during power failure yet not require lighting for egress, I guess they maybe figure you can find your way with the light from the strobe.
 
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baronson

Member
Location
Washington State, at the beach
Yes this is a"transient" rental unit for the public and no they are not requiring egress lighting.

I have tested the 420 watt UPS and that seems to back the strobe up. The UPS was $100 and I'll probably cut in an outlet off the strobe/smokie circuit and and pig tail off off that. Cheesy but it backs the strobe up in a no power situation.
 
kwired

kwired

Electron manager
Location
NE Nebraska
baronson said:
Yes this is a"transient" rental unit for the public and no they are not requiring egress lighting.

I have tested the 420 watt UPS and that seems to back the strobe up. The UPS was $100 and I'll probably cut in an outlet off the strobe/smokie circuit and and pig tail off off that. Cheesy but it backs the strobe up in a no power situation.
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Will they relieve that requirement if you install a sprinkler system?

Sorry had to ask, it seems that statement has come up a lot around here more recently for many different circumstances.
 
mgookin

mgookin

Senior Member
Location
Fort Myers, FL
baronson said:
Yes this is a"transient" rental unit for the public and no they are not requiring egress lighting.

I have tested the 420 watt UPS and that seems to back the strobe up. The UPS was $100 and I'll probably cut in an outlet off the strobe/smokie circuit and and pig tail off off that. Cheesy but it backs the strobe up in a no power situation.
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I'd suggest some type of permanent label on that UPS indicating what it's purpose is and how to maintain or replace it when necessary.

I'm curious as to why just one cabin. Was there a fire or something and just one cabin is being worked on? Tree fell on it?
 
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ggunn

PE (Electrical), NABCEP certified
Location
Austin, TX, USA
Occupation
Consulting Electrical Engineer - Photovoltaic Systems
GrayHair said:
Granted, I've been out of it for several years, but I agree, what he wants doesn't exist. The inrush current for a strobe would be far exceed the capability of any reasonable battery in a single/multiple-station smoke.
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Why is that? My little camera has a really bright strobe that runs off a pair of AA batteries.
 
kwired

kwired

Electron manager
Location
NE Nebraska
ggunn said:
Why is that? My little camera has a really bright strobe that runs off a pair of AA batteries.
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I can't say I know a lot about strobe lights, but I would imagine it doesn't take as much power for an occasional flash vs needing steady flashing for maybe at least an hour.
 
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baronson

Member
Location
Washington State, at the beach
mgookin said:
I'd suggest some type of permanent label on that UPS indicating what it's purpose is and how to maintain or replace it when necessary.

I'm curious as to why just one cabin. Was there a fire or something and just one cabin is being worked on? Tree fell on it?
Click to expand...

Yes, I'll take your suggestion for labeling. These are new construction, of the 5 built one is made for the ADA.
 
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ggunn

PE (Electrical), NABCEP certified
Location
Austin, TX, USA
Occupation
Consulting Electrical Engineer - Photovoltaic Systems
kwired said:
I can't say I know a lot about strobe lights, but I would imagine it doesn't take as much power for an occasional flash vs needing steady flashing for maybe at least an hour.
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Granted, but there are batteries a whole lot bigger than 2 AA's.
 
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