Car charger wire sizing

Status
Not open for further replies.

mbrooke

Batteries Included
Location
United States
Occupation
Technician
So in a bit of a dilemma. I have a car charger with an 80amp draw, and of course x1.25 I used a 100amp breaker with 2-3 NM-B. However looking at table 310.15 (B) (16) #2 is only good for 95amps. Does the next size up rule cover me for this or do I need to use MC cable/conduit instead?
 

Little Bill

Moderator
Staff member
Location
Tennessee NEC:2017
Occupation
Semi-Retired Electrician
So in a bit of a dilemma. I have a car charger with an 80amp draw, and of course x1.25 I used a 100amp breaker with 2-3 NM-B. However looking at table 310.15 (B) (16) #2 is only good for 95amps. Does the next size up rule cover me for this or do I need to use MC cable/conduit instead?

Who says the charger is a continuous load?
 

ActionDave

Chief Moderator
Staff member
Location
Durango, CO, 10 h 20 min from the winged horses.
Occupation
Licensed Electrician
So in a bit of a dilemma. I have a car charger with an 80amp draw, and of course x1.25 I used a 100amp breaker with 2-3 NM-B. However looking at table 310.15 (B) (16) #2 is only good for 95amps. Does the next size up rule cover me for this or do I need to use MC cable/conduit instead?
Next size up covers you; but your question has made me curious......

Where does the 80A come from? Is there not a rating on the car charger nameplate?

Where do you go to get 2-3 NM? I have never heard of it.
 

Rampage_Rick

Senior Member
Last edited:

MasterTheNEC

CEO and President of Electrical Code Academy, Inc.
Location
McKinney, Texas
Occupation
CEO
Branch Circuit Continuous Load Example
What size branch-circuit overcurrent protection device and conductor (Type NM-B) is required for a 80A continuous load (60?C Rated Conductors).


Step 1 - Size the overcurrent protection device in accordance with 210.20(A) - The branch-circuit overcurrent protection device must be sized not less than 125% of 80A.
80A x 125% = 100A [240.6(A)]
Step 2 - Select the conductor to comply with 210.19(A), which requires the branch-circuit conductor to be sized no less than 125% of the continuous load, 80A x 125% = 100A. The conductor is selected to the 60?C temperature rating per 334.80 and 110.14(C) in accordance with Table 310.15(B)(16). In this case, 1 AWG having a rating of 110A at 60?C is suitable.


Step 3 - We must ensure the conductor is protected against overcurrent in accordance with the requirements of 210.19(A)(1) for the conductors and sized per the requirements in 210.12(B) which directs you to 240.4 and the next size up rule would apply to the OCPD as the conditions of 240.4(B) are met.

Above is a revamped Mike Holt Example to reflect your example....

and their is NEVER any love in this forum....lol:jawdrop:

The next problem you run into is the scope of conductor sizes for Type NM Cable- See UL 719 below.....

5 Conductors


5.1 Only soft-annealed copper, copper-clad aluminum, or an acceptable aluminum alloy shall be used for
the conductor or conductors in a cable. Soft-annealed copper shall comply with the Standard Specification
for Soft or Annealed Copper Wire, ASTM B 3. Solid aluminum conductors in size 12 ? 8 AWG shall comply
with the requirements for aluminum-wire stock (aluminum-alloy conductor material). All other aluminum
conductors shall comply with Requirements for Aluminum Conductors of an 8000 Series Alloy, Section 10
in UL 1581. Copper-clad aluminum conductors shall comply with Requirements for Copper-Clad
Aluminum Conductors, Section 11 in UL 1581. In a given cable, all conductors shall be of the same metal.


5.2 A copper circuit conductor shall not be smaller than 14 AWG and shall not be larger than 2 AWG. An
aluminum or copper-clad aluminum circuit conductor shall not be smaller than 12 AWG and shall not be
larger than 2 AWG.


5.3 An 8 AWG or larger circuit conductor and a 6 AWG or larger grounding conductor shall be stranded.
Conductors shall comply with the requirements in Clause 4.1 of the Standard for Thermoplastic-Insulated
Wires and Cables, UL 83 except as modified in this Section.
 

mbrooke

Batteries Included
Location
United States
Occupation
Technician
Thank you MasterTheNEC :D


So my understanding is that not only must the OCPD be sized to 125% but same with the wire. So 95amps would technically violate 210.19 (A).
 

MasterTheNEC

CEO and President of Electrical Code Academy, Inc.
Location
McKinney, Texas
Occupation
CEO
Thank you MasterTheNEC :D


So my understanding is that not only must the OCPD be sized to 125% but same with the wire. So 95amps would technically violate 210.19 (A).
Indeed.......and again I don't think you will find Type NM-B in 1 AWG because the standard limits it to 2 AWG (also as stated in 334.104 for good measure). How about some nicely, freshly manufactured Type SE-R Cable...;)
 

cowboyjwc

Moderator
Staff member
Location
Simi Valley, CA
The only EV that will draw remotely close to 80A is a Tesla Model S with the optional dual onboard chargers. Here's the manual for a Tesla HPWC: https://www.teslamotors.com/sites/default/files/blog_attachments/ms_hpwc_installation_guide.pdf

They specify 3ga copper with 75?C insulation on a 100A breaker. What's the temperature rating of your NM-B?

If it's 75? then it should be good for 115A. If it's 60? then this. Most everything available here is rated for 90?.
That's what I found too. The other one I saw was just 40 amps.
 

curt swartz

Electrical Contractor - San Jose, CA
Location
San Jose, CA
Occupation
Electrical Contractor
They specify 3ga copper with 75?C insulation on a 100A breaker. What's the temperature rating of your NM-B?

If it's 75? then it should be good for 115A. If it's 60? then this. Most everything available here is rated for 90?.

All NM-B has 90C insulation on the conductors but the final adjusted ampacity is not allowed to exceed that of 60C conductors.
 

Rampage_Rick

Senior Member
Yes. We don't derate NM to 60? if it's marked 75? or 90?. They've made some recent changes to bring things closer to the NEC, but nothing crazy:

dalfr4z.jpg
wfCiv62.jpg

Note that even with the 90? rating on the cable, you'd probably have a 75? rating on the breaker termination and thus use the 75? column
 
Last edited:
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top