Phase colors on panels and branch circuits

[electricalist]

On a set of approved plans , the inspector had taped a note that said panels had to be labeled what each phase color was as well as the branch circuits identified properly at all junction boxes.
Tomorrow Ill get the exact wording.
The feeders are all black in the existing panel were using..
2008 code cycle.
where is he getting this from? If theres no code for color coding ungrounded phase conductors(120/240)


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[Carultch]

On a set of approved plans , the inspector had taped a note that said panels had to be labeled what each phase color was as well as the branch circuits identified properly at all junction boxes.
Tomorrow Ill get the exact wording.
The feeders are all black in the existing panel were using..
2008 code cycle.
where is he getting this from? If theres no code for color coding ungrounded phase conductors(120/240)


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Requiring a standard color code on ungrounded phase conductors hasn't been a requirement since before I was born. It certainly is good practice to use the industry norm color codes, but it isn't a requirement.

The only counterexample I can think of, is orange for the high leg.

 

[tom baker]

there is a color code requirement for neutrals and hots where more than one nominal voltage system is present. NEC does not tell what colors but you must be able to identify by phase and system, and the scheme must be posted.
IE 120/208 purple/pink/blue gray neutral
277/480 black/red/yellow white neutral

If only one nominal voltage system is present, then the neutral is white or gray. Green is for EGC only. Hots can be any color.
There are industry standards but its tough to maintain those colors over the life of a building.

 

[GoldDigger]

There is a requirement that when there is more than one voltage system in the building, the conductors of each system (including feeder and branch) be identified at each end point, and by implication at each junction box where they terminate or are tapped.
It is less clear that they need to be identified in the same way at each pull box, condulet or other place where they do not terminate.
(The latter is much easier if you use color!)

There is a requirement that the identification code used (color, tape, tag) be clearly posted at the building, although it does not suggest where.

There is absolutely no need to identify branch circuit conductors by breaker, but they do need to be identified by voltage system.

It is legal to use more than one method of marking too, as long as it is properly posted somewhere.
But a given marking may not be ambiguous as to the system it is part of.

 

[don_resqcapt19]

On a set of approved plans , the inspector had taped a note that said panels had to be labeled what each phase color was as well as the branch circuits identified properly at all junction boxes.
Tomorrow Ill get the exact wording.
The feeders are all black in the existing panel were using..
2008 code cycle.
where is he getting this from? If theres no code for color coding ungrounded phase conductors(120/240)


Sent from my GT-N5110 using Tapatalk

I am not aware of a requirement to identify feeders by color and system, but in buildings where there is more than one nominal voltage system the branch circuit conductors are required to be identified by phase and system. See 210.5(C) in the 2008 NEC.

 

[rlundsrud]

While I don't think you should be required to color identify your ungrounded conductors, if the inspector is unwilling to budge, just identify them with phasing tape.

 

[chris kennedy]

I am not aware of a requirement to identify feeders by color and system, but in buildings where there is more than one nominal voltage system the branch circuit conductors are required to be identified by phase and system. See 210.5(C) in the 2008 NEC.

There is something in 215 similar to the requirement in 210.

 

[Smart $]

There is something in 215 similar to the requirement in 210.

215.12(C)(1) in the 2014 Code.

 

[chris kennedy]

215.12(C)(1) in the 2014 Code.

Thank you Smart.

 

[don_resqcapt19]

There is something in 215 similar to the requirement in 210.

Thanks, I forgot about that one.

 

[Technodude]

Color phase tape

Color phase tape

Typically in jurisdictions I've worked the electrician is required to match the color code the utility uses throughout the system. For example 480v 3p Brown Orange Yellow at main disconnect, breakers feeding 3p loads, and at each panel and motor disconnect. This is typically done to assure proper phase rotation when connecting motors and other phase sensitive equipment.

I think its just good practice to identify phase rotation throughout any system and have been doing so for over 30 years.

Cheers
Technodude

 

[kwired]

Typically in jurisdictions I've worked the electrician is required to match the color code the utility uses throughout the system. For example 480v 3p Brown Orange Yellow at main disconnect, breakers feeding 3p loads, and at each panel and motor disconnect. This is typically done to assure proper phase rotation when connecting motors and other phase sensitive equipment.

I think its just good practice to identify phase rotation throughout any system and have been doing so for over 30 years.

Cheers
Technodude

Here we are usually bringing our own conductors to the utility equipment, sometimes directly to their transformer sometimes to other equipment where they my have some color coding on their supply conductors. Most of the time their markings is red/white/blue regardless of voltage as that is the color of leads on rotation testing equipment, they may have clockwise/counter clockwise rotation indicated also.

Once you leave their equipment you need to use a marking scheme that doesn't conflict with other NEC rules for the rest of the premises wiring. The white mark for white lead of rotation tester makes some sense but violates NEC requirements if not used on a grounded conductor.

 

[electricalist]

So the poco ought to be black red blue and that be correct rotation?.
Then if the phases are kept true through out the system then rotation could be kept?

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[kwired]

So the poco ought to be black red blue and that be correct rotation?.
Then if the phases are kept true through out the system then rotation could be kept?

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Black, red, blue tells you what line you have if you mark it that way throughout the facility - you still need to specify what direction rotation is to be, if not you have 50% chance it is clockwise and 50% chance it is counterclockwise, unless you have a POCO that is consistent with providing a specific rotation at their equipment. That is seldom the way it is here though, they can give you what you specify, but if you don't specify you don't know what it will be. That is for new services, they will put rotation back the way it was when making repairs, upgrading equipment, etc. to an existing service.

 

[electricalist]

Sadly enough we were doing a service up grade, my boss and i were talking to the poco forman and everything was supposed to go back the way it was with rotation. Nope they put it opposite.. Usually they do get it right.

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[kwired]

Sadly enough we were doing a service up grade, my boss and i were talking to the poco forman and everything was supposed to go back the way it was with rotation. Nope they put it opposite.. Usually they do get it right.

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Had worse situation one time. POCO had old underground primary that occasionally had failures. They had three conductors buried but were only using two at any one time to supply an open delta transformer bank. Whenever there was a failure they just swapped the spare lead until they got around to making repair on the failed one.

One particular time they connected it up, checked rotation and then left. I get a call later about items all around the place not working. Turns out the rotation was correct but nobody confirmed that the high leg was in the correct position

 

[electricalist]

Probably worked real good for a few seconds.

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[jeremysterling]

So the poco ought to be black red blue and that be correct rotation?.
Then if the phases are kept true through out the system then rotation could be kept?

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And if you wire a panel untrue, such as red, blue, black (BCA), then rotation is also kept.

 

[kwired]

And if you wire a panel untrue, such as red, blue, black (BCA), then rotation is also kept.

Same rotation also if you wire it CAB. Kind of what you said but there are only two alternates to ABC that give same rotation, the other three possibilities give opposite rotation.

 

[mikelynd]

Standard colors

Standard colors

I'm union trained, and when I went through school they taught us that 120/208/240 was black/red/blue (ABC) and 277/480 was brown/orange/yellow (ABC). But now I know that there is no color code as I wired a building shell, then they got a different company to do the TI and that company pulled all yellow. As to my black red blue. And the state inspector said that works. So my question is I thought even though their is no true color code you need to follow what has been established since I established a color code? Or can we just make everything the same. Like all yellow! If so no wounder this industry as gone to hell here in Montana.