150a breaker in 200a panel

[MBLES]

can you and where does it say or doesnt say you can install 150a breaker in 200a panel?

 

[iwire]

can you and where does it say or doesnt say you can install 150a breaker in 200a panel?

Code wise the only thing that matters is the total calculated load remains under 200 amps.

However the panel itself may have limits how large a breaker you can install.

Are you talking about a residential plug in load center or a commecial style bolt on panelboard?

 

[MBLES]

Code wise the only thing that matters is the total calculated load remains under 200 amps. However the panel itself may have limits how large a breaker you can install.
Are you talking about a residential plug in load center or a commecial style bolt on panelboard?

Yes commercial panel. i heard but never verified that you could put a breaker larger than 100a in 200 amp panel.
i was looking for code reference, if there was one.

 

[jap]

Code wise the only thing that matters is the total calculated load remains under 200 amps.

However the panel itself may have limits how large a breaker you can install.

Are you talking about a residential plug in load center or a commecial style bolt on panelboard?[/QUOT


Yes commercial panel. i heard but never verified that you could put a breaker larger than 100a in 200 amp panel.
i was looking for code reference, if there was one.

Most panelboard buss bars are rated when you first choose the amperage of the Panel and the max size of the branch breaker by one of 3 options.
The options are 100amp branch, 225 amp branch, and larger than 225 amp branch.

At times if there is only 1 Sub feed breaker needed, its more economical to figure a 100 amp branch chassis with a connector kit (That has heavier finger material) for a larger subfeed breaker.

Most generally a standard 225 amp rated panelboard will have a max branch circuit size of 100 amps and should be indicated somewhere on the specs for the panel itself.
That is with Eaton Cutler Hammer that is.

Otherwise the bussbars themselves are rated at 225 amps and are capable of having through feed lugs or subfeed hardware installed on them as an option to service a subfeed breaker or additional panel sections as needed.

JAP>

 

[templdl]

Code wise the only thing that matters is the total calculated load remains under 200 amps.

However the panel itself may have limits how large a breaker you can install.

Are you talking about a residential plug in load center or a commecial style bolt on panelboard?

It is strange that we have no clue if this is a load center or a panel board. The average panerlboard may have provisions for 100 or even 150 frsme branch breakers. But with little that we know there is no way to provide s diffinitive answer. Is it a main or branch beaker that he is greeting to?

 

[Carultch]

Code wise the only thing that matters is the total calculated load remains under 200 amps.

However the panel itself may have limits how large a breaker you can install.

Are you talking about a residential plug in load center or a commecial style bolt on panelboard?[/QUOT


Yes commercial panel. i heard but never verified that you could put a breaker larger than 100a in 200 amp panel.
i was looking for code reference, if there was one.

It looks like it is in the branch breaker position. A 150A breaker in what appears to be a 200A panelboard.

It just takes up twice as much space per pole as its 70A counterparts.

 

[electrofelon]

can you and where does it say or doesnt say you can install 150a breaker in 200a panel?

As far as I know it is pretty much universal across manufacturers (prob a UL standard?) that 125 is the largest two pole plug in, and 100 amp is the largest three pole plug in. Three pole bolt on may allow a 125. I think larger sizes always span two spaces per pole. There is no reason you couldnt put a 125 in a 100 amp MLO or main breaker panel as long as the loads worked out, just not the most logical design

 

[kwired]

It looks like it is in the branch breaker position. A 150A breaker in what appears to be a 200A panelboard.

It just takes up twice as much space per pole as its 70A counterparts.

That particular panel likely is limited to 125 amps per "space" or "bus finger". The breaker in question takes two spaces per pole, and is listed for the purpose. It may have restrictions on exactly what panelboards/cabinet combinations it can be used with because of other factors like wire bending space at the load terminals.

See panel documentation as well as documentation for the breaker. Both are made by same manufacturer so there shouldn't be much for conflicting information like there could be if they were different manufacturers.

This is a listing issue and is not addressed in the NEC. If it is listed for the use NEC is fine with it.

 

[kwired]

I will add if that should happen to be a bolt on breaker - it could be used as a main breaker in that panel - the main lugs then become usable as subfeed lugs.

 

[jap]

I will add if that should happen to be a bolt on breaker - it could be used as a main breaker in that panel - the main lugs then become usable as subfeed lugs.

Usable to an extent, but, if used this way and if the full 150 amp of the subfeed was desired and required a neutral, the Neutral lug issue would need to be addressed seeing as how it would already be utilized by the neutral feeding this panel


JAP>

 

[mbrooke]

That particular panel likely is limited to 125 amps per "space" or "bus finger". The breaker in question takes two spaces per pole, and is listed for the purpose. It may have restrictions on exactly what panelboards/cabinet combinations it can be used with because of other factors like wire bending space at the load terminals.

See panel documentation as well as documentation for the breaker. Both are made by same manufacturer so there shouldn't be much for conflicting information like there could be if they were different manufacturers.

This is a listing issue and is not addressed in the NEC. If it is listed for the use NEC is fine with it.

I agree, if so those high current breakers directly across from them would be an issue.

 

[iwire]

I agree, if so those high current breakers directly across from them would be an issue.

Breakers larger than 100 amps do not allow a breaker across from them.

A plug in two pole 125 will take four spaces.

A bolt on will require different fingers.

 

[Sierrasparky]

As far as I know it is pretty much universal across manufacturers (prob a UL standard?) that 125 is the largest two pole plug in, and 100 amp is the largest three pole plug in. Three pole bolt on may allow a 125. I think larger sizes always span two spaces per pole. There is no reason you couldnt put a 125 in a 100 amp MLO or main breaker panel as long as the loads worked out, just not the most logical design

I have a Murray plug in that is a 150 amp takes both sided of the bus for each stab.

 

[jim dungar]

Breakers larger than 100 amps do not allow a breaker across from them.

A plug in two pole 125 will take four spaces.

A bolt on will require different fingers.

That pictured breaker can be used with 40A maximum branch breaker 'across' from it.
That panel has fingers that accept both plug-on and bolt-on branch breakers, they can be used interchangeably.

 

[kwired]

Breakers larger than 100 amps do not allow a breaker across from them.

A plug in two pole 125 will take four spaces.

A bolt on will require different fingers.

The picture in post 6 seems to prove that wrong for that particular panel.

From my experiences with NQ panels there are no breakers that block the opposite side from being used. QO plug on breakers 110, and 125 amp also from past experiences do not intrude the other side and only use one space per pole, I have installed many of them. But plug on QO over 100 amp and only utilizing one space per pole are only available in 2 pole versions, you need a bolt on breaker and panel that accepts them if you need a three pole, those may be the larger frame that takes 2 spaces per pole, not really that familiar with them so I won't claim either way.

Used to be you had the straigh QO line that accepted plug on breakers, and the NQOB and possibly a couple other lines that accepted the bolt on breakers only. Now their NQ line (which is what is pictured in post 6) accepts both plug on and bolt on breakers.

 

[kwired]

Looking in catalog, the breaker pictured in post 6 about has to be bolt on and also 22kAIC rated - they are only available in plug on in standard interrupt rating in 2 pole versions and is only 150,175 and 200 amp. Go to 22kAIC and you can get all standard sizes from 100 to 200.

 

[jim dungar]

Used to be you had the straigh QO line that accepted plug on breakers, and the NQOB and possibly a couple other lines that accepted the bolt on breakers only. Now their NQ line (which is what is pictured in post 6) accepts both plug on and bolt on breakers.

For trivia lovers:

The QO line is, and always has been, loadcenter construction. It replaced the XO line which replaced the MO line

Their 'branch circuit' panelboard line has always begun with the letter N. The dedicated breaker style (NQO for plug-on and NQOB for bolt-on) were obsoleted about 30 years ago, when they were replaced with a NQOD panel that had a finger design which accepted both styles of breakers. The NQOD line was obsoleted about 10 years ago, when the NQ family was introduced. The QO and QOB branch breakers, have stayed basically unchanged since they were introduced some 60 years ago.

 

[iwire]

The picture in post 6 seems to prove that wrong for that particular panel.

I agree you are right

 

[mbrooke]

Breakers larger than 100 amps do not allow a breaker across from them.

A plug in two pole 125 will take four spaces.

A bolt on will require different fingers.

What panels does this apply to? I know that in a resi I can stick in a 125 amp breaker and put another across from it.