unavoidable redundancy?

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GerryB

Senior Member
Location
woodbridge, ct. USA
I wired a shed for my brother. Came up to a corner in the shed, put a GFI and fed thru the load side for a switched outlet and another outlet. He wanted an outdoor outlet and as I was installing a regular TR receptacle (since it was already gfi protected) I remembered the outdoor receptacle is supposed to be WR also. So I put in a second gfi. The outside gfi is now also protected by the inside gfi which I don't like to do, but I didn't want to rewire everything or put in more gfi's for the other two plugs. I can see this being an issue to consider. Do they make a receptacle that is WR but not GFI?
 
kwired

kwired

Electron manager
Location
NE Nebraska
May not be all that high of demand for them which may mean some suppliers may not stock them, including some big box stores, but they are made.
 
infinity

infinity

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There's no issue with one GFCI device feeding another. Just curious did you install a disconnecting means for the shed?
 
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GerryB

Senior Member
Location
woodbridge, ct. USA
electricman2 said:
225.31 requires a disconnect for the ungrounded conductors. For one circuit to an outbuilding, a single pole switch will do. 225.36 exception.
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Never seen a disconnect at a shed or detached garage. Sounds more like commercial or industrial, but how about 225.32 exception 1? "single management" residential home, "documented safe switching procedure" circuit breaker is labeled, "installation is monitored by qualified individual" my brother lives there. (or you can push the test button on the gfi)
 
infinity

infinity

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GerryB said:
Never seen a disconnect at a shed or detached garage. Sounds more like commercial or industrial, but how about 225.32 exception 1? "single management" residential home, "documented safe switching procedure" circuit breaker is labeled, "installation is monitored by qualified individual" my brother lives there. (or you can push the test button on the gfi)
Click to expand...

That wouldn't pass an inspection around here. :)
 
ptonsparky

ptonsparky

Tom
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GerryB said:
Never seen a disconnect at a shed or detached garage. Sounds more like commercial or industrial, but how about 225.32 exception 1? "single management" residential home, "documented safe switching procedure" circuit breaker is labeled, "installation is monitored by qualified individual" my brother lives there. (or you can push the test button on the gfi)
Click to expand...
Does he have a documented procedure including proof of training in the procedure?
 
kwired

kwired

Electron manager
Location
NE Nebraska
GerryB said:
I find that hard to believe. How about if the gfi is a dead front gfi, used for switches all the time.
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Does it indicate that it is on/off?

Can you "open" the circuit even if there is no supply power? What if there were no supply power for whatever reason and you were working on that circuit - then the power resumes? A true compliant disconnecting means can be "opened" regardless.

A GFCI breaker meets those criteria, GFCI receptacles and "dead fronts" do not.
 
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GerryB

Senior Member
Location
woodbridge, ct. USA
kwired said:
Does it indicate that it is on/off?

Can you "open" the circuit even if there is no supply power? What if there were no supply power for whatever reason and you were working on that circuit - then the power resumes? A true compliant disconnecting means can be "opened" regardless.

A GFCI breaker meets those criteria, GFCI receptacles and "dead fronts" do not.
Click to expand...
I think they are marked on/off, but you can't open the circuit with no power. But I am really curious now. Infinity from NJ posted it woudln't pass inspection. Another post from ritelec in NJ he has a detached garage and needs a mbc, so does he need a 2-pole disco at the garage? A 2pole gfi breaker is no good(out of sight)?
 
infinity

infinity

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If the detached structure is supplied by a single MWBC a two pole snap switch is permitted as the disconnecting means. The disconnecting means mentioned in 225.31 is required to comply with 225.36.

225.36 Type. The disconnecting means specified in 225.31
shall be comprised of a circuit breaker, molded case switch,
general-use switch, snap switch, or other approved means.
Where applied in accordance with 250.32(B), Exception,
the disconnecting means shall be suitable for use as service
equipment.
Click to expand...

For the 2011 and earlier versions of the NEC the disconnecting means was required to a serviced rated switch or by exception a snap switch.

225.36 Suitable for Service Equipment. The disconnect-
ing means specified in 225.31 shall be suitable for use as
service equipment.
Exception: For garages and outbuildings on residential
property, a snap switch or a set of 3-way or 4-way snap
switches shall be permitted as the disconnecting means.
Click to expand...
 
kwired

kwired

Electron manager
Location
NE Nebraska
225.36 Type. The disconnecting means specified in 225.31
shall be comprised of a circuit breaker, molded case switch,
general-use switch, snap switch, or other approved means.
Where applied in accordance with 250.32(B), Exception,
the disconnecting means shall be suitable for use as service
equipment.
Click to expand...

The GFCI receptacle or blank face could qualify under "other approved means" but I doubt you find many inpspectors that would otherwise approve.
 
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