Dual GEC to H2O

[Ponchik]

When I upgrade from 100A to 200A I always install a new GEC #4 to the water pipe (As required). However, I always keep the existing #6 GEC that went to the water pipe and reconnect it in the panel. I never take it off.

I know the answer is NO but I will ask just to confirm. I can't find in the book to contradict my answer.

Is it a violation:

1. to have a smaller gauge GEC even though the correct size is installed and both go to the same water pipe electrode?
2. to have parallel GEC to the same electrode (water pipe in this case)?

Thank you

 

[mwm1752]

Technically if the additional 6# is indeed considered an electrode conductor it would have to be sized per table 250.66 - to "not connect it" as its' designed use would be the proper action -- personally I do not know if it would cause any life safety hazard --

 

[mopowr steve]

Why don't you take it off?

 

[Ponchik]

Why don't you take it off?

Because I don't know if it being used for UFER or not even though I can see the other end is connected to the old water pipe.

Technically if the additional 6# is indeed considered an electrode conductor it would have to be sized per table 250.66 - to "not connect it" as its' designed use would be the proper action -- personally I do not know if it would cause any life safety hazard --

Why would it not be considered an electrode conductor? What else could be called?

 

[mwm1752]

You never mentioned UFER in the original post --- can you verify the entire path of the 6# electrode conductor? it is tough to be accurate without full disclosure -- could be a bonding jumper in some cases but is still undersized. -- what is your existing supplemental electrode?

 

[Ponchik]

You never mentioned UFER in the original post Because as i said earlier I don't know if it is being used as a UFER first then ends up on the water pipe--- can you verify the entire path of the 6# electrode conductor? it is tough to be accurate without full disclosure Full disclosure of what? -- could be a bonding jumper in some cases but is still undersized. -- what is your existing supplemental electrode?

Locally for upgrades we install ground rod and use the water pipe as the two electrodes. Certain AHJ require two ground rods plus the water.

 

[petersonra]

if you call it a GEC, then it has to be sized according to the GEC sizing chart.

if it is just a green wire that happens to run from a GE to a ground bar in a panelboard, it might not be a GEC.

I am not a fan of removing wires like this. There is no way to know what it might also be attached to.

 

[kwired]

Because I don't know if it being used for UFER or not even though I can see the other end is connected to the old water pipe.

Is undersized for the UFER also.

I guess I never run into older buildings with a UFER, they were never installed around here until the changes in NEC were more clear on the mandatory use of them which wasn't until 2005(?) NEC came out so I would never even think it may go to one.

 

[mwm1752]

Locally for upgrades we install ground rod and use the water pipe as the two electrodes. Certain AHJ require two ground rods plus the water.

It is not a violation for installing more than required by code -- not really enforceable though

 

[JFletcher]

Today I saw 2 #6 solid bare copper wires attached to one ground rod, both appearing to go into the breaker panel. Wasnt there to look at that tho and didnt get a pic, but they were both under one clamp. New one by me...