nortonmarg
New User
- Location
- Greenbrae California
This is a question and I hope doesn't violate the forum rules. I read about the forum while reading Karl Riley's book "Tracing EMF's In Building Wiring and Grounding". I have just ordered the Soares book on grounding. I've been an electrician for more than 40 years and am a member of IBEW 6.
I have found an odd problem with the service and sub-panel grounding in an older house. The electrical service entrance is on the opposite side of the house from the water service. The alleged existing service ground to a water pipe is inaccessible. It's in a very tight crawl space and the plumbers, during a kitchen remodel when the floor of the kitchen was off, ran their plastic drains where it was easiest for them. Pretty much cutting off further access to anyone but a midget and it's a long crawl. The new water service, seems to be in the same location as the old one, based on the meter location at the street curb, and is on the opposite side of the building in the garage. There is a sub-panel in the garage, fed by old romex with no grounding conductor.
The main service ground is definitely not connected to the incoming water service within 15 feet, it's on the opposite side of the building and may be connected to an obsolete galvanized water pipe that is not readily inspectable. Even if it's not obsolete, it's inaccessible for inspection to verify its integrity. Running a new service ground wire to the water service entrance is a serious problem. What section addresses the issue of not attaching the service ground directly to the incoming water service and only using two grounding electrodes as the primary service ground?
The service is an old FPE (yuck) unit that they aren't planning on replacing as they're new owners. The property is very near the San Francisco bay and the people across the street, who are a tad lower in elevation, get water, meaning mud, in their crawl spaces at very high tide. This unit may not. Still, the soil underneath is usually damp with salt water.
My thought was to run two ground rods on the electrical service side of the house. I always run 10' rods so that more than 8' is buried and the clamps are visually inspectable, I also use clamps for burial and grease the threads If I have stainless steel screws, I sometimes use those, also with greased threads.
In the garage for the sub-panel with no grounding conductor, my thought was to make sure the neutral block is isolated and run a grounding wire from the sub-panel ground buss to the water pipe service entrance. What code section addresses whether this is properly bonding the sub-panel grounding buss to the water service?
The rules say no free ranging discussions about problems to be solved, but in this instance, I hope asking for what are the relevant code sections about something weird and unusual, isn't an issue. It's unlikely I will get to do this job, so my query is hypothetical as I'm very interested in knowing more about this rather complicated situation.
Thank you for your time and thoughts.
I have found an odd problem with the service and sub-panel grounding in an older house. The electrical service entrance is on the opposite side of the house from the water service. The alleged existing service ground to a water pipe is inaccessible. It's in a very tight crawl space and the plumbers, during a kitchen remodel when the floor of the kitchen was off, ran their plastic drains where it was easiest for them. Pretty much cutting off further access to anyone but a midget and it's a long crawl. The new water service, seems to be in the same location as the old one, based on the meter location at the street curb, and is on the opposite side of the building in the garage. There is a sub-panel in the garage, fed by old romex with no grounding conductor.
The main service ground is definitely not connected to the incoming water service within 15 feet, it's on the opposite side of the building and may be connected to an obsolete galvanized water pipe that is not readily inspectable. Even if it's not obsolete, it's inaccessible for inspection to verify its integrity. Running a new service ground wire to the water service entrance is a serious problem. What section addresses the issue of not attaching the service ground directly to the incoming water service and only using two grounding electrodes as the primary service ground?
The service is an old FPE (yuck) unit that they aren't planning on replacing as they're new owners. The property is very near the San Francisco bay and the people across the street, who are a tad lower in elevation, get water, meaning mud, in their crawl spaces at very high tide. This unit may not. Still, the soil underneath is usually damp with salt water.
My thought was to run two ground rods on the electrical service side of the house. I always run 10' rods so that more than 8' is buried and the clamps are visually inspectable, I also use clamps for burial and grease the threads If I have stainless steel screws, I sometimes use those, also with greased threads.
In the garage for the sub-panel with no grounding conductor, my thought was to make sure the neutral block is isolated and run a grounding wire from the sub-panel ground buss to the water pipe service entrance. What code section addresses whether this is properly bonding the sub-panel grounding buss to the water service?
The rules say no free ranging discussions about problems to be solved, but in this instance, I hope asking for what are the relevant code sections about something weird and unusual, isn't an issue. It's unlikely I will get to do this job, so my query is hypothetical as I'm very interested in knowing more about this rather complicated situation.
Thank you for your time and thoughts.
