Who classifies locations?

[wrobotronic]

Hello all. I am new to the plan review process. My question is: who makes the call as to what classification a new commercial location receives? I'm not the reviewer of record mind you, I just want to try an educate myself... the plans I am looking at are for a hemp oil extraction facility. To me it seems that the process should be classified to some degree, but do I make that call or the engineer or someone above my pay grade? And where on the print would I find this information? Thank you as always.

 

[rbalex]

Technically, it can be done by anyone who knows what they are doing. The legal responsibility is like many other things in our business - it's up to the AHJ. Personally, I've never dealt with an AHJ that that was trained to do it properly [Section 500.4(A)] but I've have never seen them question a PE stamp or a facility's insurer certification. The PE can be either the facility's own employee or a consultant.

 

[bphgravity]

In the state of Florida, the registered design professional for the project in question is responsible for identifying & documenting the classified locations. This will be verified and approved/rejected by the local Fire Marshal &/or Building Official.

 

[RICK NAPIER]

In the state of Florida, the registered design professional for the project in question is responsible for identifying & documenting the classified locations. This will be verified and approved/rejected by the local Fire Marshal &/or Building Official.

Same here in NJ.

 

[mwm1752]

The IBC has guidelines for classification of use & construction. Experienced plans examiners should be able to decipher such information. As for hemp oil extraction you may be dealing with extremelty high preasure vessels, flamable gas & dust. Are you talking agricultural or factory? Residential or commercial zones? Fire protection could be extreme. This is not a generic answer. I have not seen a juristiction rule the same as another yet.

 

[mwm1752]

In the state of Florida, the registered design professional for the project in question is responsible for identifying & documenting the classified locations. This will be verified and approved/rejected by the local Fire Marshal &/or Building Official.

Does a registered design professional have an enginneering degree or just pay the state a fee to design.

 

[ron]

Recently had an experience where there are several design professionals, no single Engineer of Record. The architect, process engineer, electrical engineer and mechanical engineer were all different (all signing / sealing their own documents) and all thought the "other" should determine the classification to be used in the respective trade code. All were individually hired by the owner.

Lots of self preservation

 

[bphgravity]

Engineers and architects are required to be licensed in the state of Florida by the Department of Business and Professional Regulation. Qualifications to practice are outlined by the respective board.

Florida Board of Professional Engineers: https://fbpe.org/

Florida Board of Architecture & Interior Design: http://www.myfloridalicense.com/dbpr/pro/arch/index.html

 

[Strathead]

Recently had an experience where there are several design professionals, no single Engineer of Record. The architect, process engineer, electrical engineer and mechanical engineer were all different (all signing / sealing their own documents) and all thought the "other" should determine the classification to be used in the respective trade code. All were individually hired by the owner.

Lots of self preservation

This is very similar to the situations I have run in to. I have dealt with this a couple of times. Here is my two cents. Ultimately, the Architect needs to take final responsibility for this. He may not have direct expertise, but he is the captain of the design. This is similar to many other aspects of a project. Especially life safety. The Architect is the one responsible for determining the path of egress, for example. Even though he will generally hire an Electrical Engineer to ensure that light levels and locations of exit and emergency lighting is adequate, he is the one who must tell what needs to be lit in the first place. The thing is that it can be like pulling teeth to insist that they do their job!

Another good example is Fire Alarm. Here in Florida, a licensed Engineer is required to stamp any fire alarm design over $5,000.00. The fact is that the average fire alarm contractor and especially a NICET 3 or 4 qualified Fire alarm technician, knows a lot more than the average Engineer. (emphasis average there are some VERY knowledgeable Engineers.) The PE will often rely on the fire alarm person or get a manufacturer involved to aid, but ultimately it is their stamp on the drawing.

 

[ron]

Ultimately, the Architect needs to take final responsibility for this. He may not have direct expertise, but he is the captain of the design.

Unfortunately, to save money, the client hired everyone individually, so there was no "captain of the design", and coordination is a pain in the rear. Similar to the way some public projects get bid out, with no prime contractor.

 

[Strathead]

Unfortunately, to save money, the client hired everyone individually, so there was no "captain of the design", and coordination is a pain in the rear. Similar to the way some public projects get bid out, with no prime contractor.

I understood that. That is why as a person on the bottom of the totem pole people like me need to wash our hands of it and direct it to the Architect. Or the owner if they choose to be the designer of record.

 

[north star]

~ ~ @ ~ ~


wrobotronic,

Here is my take !........The architect is the one who is or should be responsible
for determining the actual Occupancy type or types of a project.......Potentially,
there could be multiple Occupancy types involved.

If there is no actual architect-of-record, ...then the AHJ "could" require that
a registered RDP be hired to provide the requirements of that particular AHJ,
and to submit all requested information, ...Specs. & plans as adopted by that
AHJ [ it's legal thing ].

Some architects do not want to want to get involved, or to place their design
seal & signature on a project [ can you say "Liability ].

Once plans; and [ possibly Specs. ], have been submitted, ...it is up to the AHJ
to determine compliance with their adopted codes & Standards...........Also,
the adopted Building Code is what determines the Occupancy Groups.
This whole process can be similar to a court case in that, an RDP submits their
sealed & signed plans of what they have interpreted to be compliance with the
adopted codes & Standards in that AHJ.......The AHJ then reviews the submitted
plans & information to determine if what has been submitted is actually
compliant..........It goes back and forth; or should [ IMO ] until both sides
agree on a final set of plans........This process of "back & forth" could take
weeks, ...months, or even years, or even minutes in some locations. :jawdrop:


If you still have questions regarding the assigning of the Occupancy Groups
of your project, ...then send me a PM and I will try to answer your questions.

Thanks !



@ @ ~ @ @

 

[mgookin]

~ ~ @ ~ ~


wrobotronic,

Here is my take !........The architect is the one who is or should be responsible
for determining the actual Occupancy type or types of a project.......Potentially,
there could be multiple Occupancy types involved.

If there is no actual architect-of-record, ...then the AHJ "could" require that
a registered RDP be hired to provide the requirements of that particular AHJ,
and to submit all requested information, ...Specs. & plans as adopted by that
AHJ [ it's legal thing ].

Some architects do not want to want to get involved, or to place their design
seal & signature on a project [ can you say "Liability ].

Once plans; and [ possibly Specs. ], have been submitted, ...it is up to the AHJ
to determine compliance with their adopted codes & Standards...........Also,
the adopted Building Code is what determines the Occupancy Groups.
This whole process can be similar to a court case in that, an RDP submits their
sealed & signed plans of what they have interpreted to be compliance with the
adopted codes & Standards in that AHJ.......The AHJ then reviews the submitted
plans & information to determine if what has been submitted is actually
compliant..........It goes back and forth; or should [ IMO ] until both sides
agree on a final set of plans........This process of "back & forth" could take
weeks, ...months, or even years, or even minutes in some locations. :jawdrop:


If you still have questions regarding the assigning of the Occupancy Groups
of your project, ...then send me a PM and I will try to answer your questions.

Thanks !



@ @ ~ @ @

OP is doing electric plan review and looking for determination of Classification and Division as it applies to the NEC compliance review.
He's not looking for the Occupancy classification under the bldg. code.