How would you cut formica?

[GerryB]

I have to change a single gang box to 2-gang, kitchen counter wall between kitchen and dining room. We can open the wall behind the box if needed. The box is a 4" sq with a single gang ring on it. The kitchen wall has I think some kind of formica sheet on it. I have cut counter top with a jigsaw, masting tape on the line, drill some pilot holes and it didn't crack, but since this is a thin sheet I'm a little worried. HO wants to know if she needs to call her carpenter to do it. Do you think a fine blade in a Dremmel is a good idea?

 

[ceknight]

I have to change a single gang box to 2-gang, kitchen counter wall between kitchen and dining room. We can open the wall behind the box if needed. The box is a 4" sq with a single gang ring on it. The kitchen wall has I think some kind of formica sheet on it.

This is good task for an oscillating multi-tool. It'll make shorter work of just about any backsplash material penetration.

 

[K8MHZ]

Personally, I think if you are hired as a professional and you don't even know what tool to use for a task outside your trade, you shouldn't be doing it. The HO asked if she should call her carpenter, the answer should be yes.

If you have to ask us how to make a little cut, what if you screw it up and the entire piece has to be replaced?

If the carpenter screws it up, it's his problem, not yours.

'Some kind of formica' tells us you don't even know what material you are asking for advice on cutting.

I may catch some flak over this, but I think if a sparky is going to do carpentry work without knowlege of the tools and materials, he should also be OK with carpenters doing electrical work without knowledge of the tools or materials.

 

[iwire]

Personally, I think if you are hired as a professional and you don't even know what tool to use for a task outside your trade, you shouldn't be doing it. The HO asked if she should call her carpenter, the answer should be yes.

I agree with you, I would have said yes to the carpenter.

If I was stuck making the cut it would be with my roto-zip as the carpenters usually use a router to cut Formica.

 

[George Stolz]

On the flip side, I've had many a carpenter make my life difficult by over cutting a hole I could have done better on myself.

In the OPs case I'd say yes to the carpenter, and then roll out a sleeping bag to catch him when he appeared.

If no carpenter were mentioned, I'd reach for a roto-zip.

 

[K8MHZ]

I agree with you, I would have said yes to the carpenter.

If I was stuck making the cut it would be with my roto-zip as the carpenters usually use a router to cut Formica.

My luck, the bit would break and the resultant sharp jagged edge would make tiny swirl shaped gouges in the exposed Formica as it thrust into the direction I was pushing.

Don't ask me how I know about the tiny swirl shaped gouges.

I was never meant to be a carpenter.

 

[ptonsparky]

My first thought was have someone else do it, but we can and do manage. The guys have bought themselves oscillating tools and love them. (No one asked or I would have bought them.)

 

[mgookin]

I would think that on something very thin that sanding or filing may be safer than cutting.

 

[kwired]

Today, I would use the oscillating tool.

10 years ago, probably jig saw with blade that has teeth oriented to cut on down stroke (most typical jigsaw blades cut on up stroke). I have never found a reciprocating saw blade with reverse cut teeth or may have used that. By using reverse stroke cutting blades you avoid pulling the laminate away from the surface it is mounted to which sometimes will break off a large piece and then you have to find a way to cover that mistake. On the flip side the saw will have a tendency to jump more then when using an up stroke cutting blade, so you still need to proceed slow and steady.

 

[jaylectricity]

Buy the multi-tool. You won't regret it.

 

[shopteacher]

I would carefully score the material with a utility knife, mask over the score with tape and use a dremel tool with a slotting saw blade to cut through the formica.

 

[hbiss]

To me being able to cut the wall open on the other side to get at the box is a gift. What I would do is cut a hole in the wall and detach the box, change the ring to a two gang, hold it in place and mark the cutout on the back of the sheetrock. Unless you are sure of yourself (which it doesn't sound like you are) stop there and have the carpenter do the cutout. If you can be there at the same time he also has some patching to do after you re-attach the box to the stud. As far as I'm concerned, they offered so take them up on it. Somebody is going to have to do patching and painting and it ain't gonna be me.

-Hal

 

[kwired]

To each his own. Formica, or other similar laminates are "low end" finishes for the most part. If I have to call someone else out to cut a hole in it that is going to add cost to the project. Whether it is worth it is a judgement call for the contractor, as well as the owner and other conditions can factor in here. If there are other trades involved in the project that normally deal with this kind of thing - maybe it works out pretty well and they may or may not even charge any extra for this cut out. If they have to drive 45 minutes just to get there and that is all they do, you may be paying half a day of labor for a 10 minute job. If no other trade is readily available and I choose to save some of that cost and cut it myself - I do risk repairing/replacing, or otherwise making a suitable finish should I cause damage, but that risk is relatively low compared to if I were to attempt the same thing if the surface were marble or granite and I had no experience with how to cut that material.

 

[macmikeman]

I ran into the exact problem a few years back. I used a dremmel with a thin grinding wheel on the end of it and took my time. Then root zipped the wood behind the laminate . Came out ok.

 

[Barbqranch]

One more vote for the oscillating tool. I have gone through a couple of the Dremel brand, and just bought a Milwaukee M12 unit. Yesterday I had to cut an approx. 5.6 inch circle in some fiberglass, so I just got out a blade that is about a half inch wide, and less than 2 minutes later, it looks like a champ. I like to tape well w/ blue masking tape, and mark clearly first.

 

[Smart $]

The best option, whether done by the carpenter or yourself, is to access the box from the backside of the wall... assuming the wall is just painted or wallpapered drywall, plasterboard, etc.. The biggest problem will if the box is metal and mounted with a front-of-stud bracket. To remove that box will require skilled use of a reciprocating saw with long metal blade, or an angle grinder with cutoff blade(s). Using either means, de-energize wires, remove from box, and bend back away from work area (assuming NM cable). It'll be much easier if the box used a side-of-stud bracket

Once the box (or what's left of it) is removed, and assuming you are putting a 4sq back in, make all your measurements and markings on the backside of the formica'd wall. Once you have the markings for the hole, measure off old hole then transfer to front side of wall and cut with oscillating tool using a metal cutting blade. Do not use heavy pressure on blade. Formica tends to be brittle from the start and gets more brittle with age. Let the blade "float" into the material. If there is wallboard behind the formica, use the oscillating tool with a very coarse tooth straight blade to hollow it out beyond the hole cut in the formica... from the backside.

Closing up the backside may present a challenge for some. If you are not good with wallboard repairs, have the homeowner bring her carpenter into the matter.

 

[Dennis Alwon]

I would carefully score the material with a utility knife, mask over the score with tape and use a dremel tool with a slotting saw blade to cut through the formica.

I have done similar install. I drilled the four corners with a 5/8" paddle bit and then scored the perimeter and used a jigsaw or a sawzall with a fine blade

 

[GerryB]

Thanks for all the replies. I will have her bring in the carpenter since he will be involved at some point either way. I recently opened up another wall to add/change an existing box and they have the old sheet rock (or plaster board) with the two layers that destroys regular blades quickly. So besides the formica there is that behind it.

 

[JFletcher]

Best thing to do imo is practice cutting different scraps before you go doing it in a customer's home. I agree with you here; get the carpenter to do it, and watch and remember what he does/uses.

Skimcoat/plasterboard isnt too bad, aside from its tendency to crack like plate glass if approached with a keyhole saw or rough sawzall blade. You might bust out a small chunk the wallplate will cover, or it could be 6". Corners, joints, and seams all have chicken wire mesh as well. I'd also say that it's virtually impossible to match with drywall repairs due to varying thicknesses of the skimcoat and thirty-eleven coats of paint* on it. It can be done but that's best left to a drywall man imho.

If the box is face-nailed to the stud, a short metal sawzall blade will make short work of the bracket.

*btw, any place that has plasterboard also likely has lead paint. tho the dangers of this are vastly overstated imo, it might not be a bad idea when cutting to wear a mask or have a helper shop-vac the dust as you're cutting.

 

[rt66electric]

FINE TOOTH hack-saw blade

FINE TOOTH hack-saw blade

Masking tape
then score with box knife.
then use hacksaw blade, and cut on the push stroke.

I have also used a grinding stone on the end of a regular drill (dremel stone)

another trick is to snap the corner off of a utility knife blade and drag it backwards down the line gouging like a chisel making a tennon slot, or, simmilar to a partoff tool on a lathe.