Normal Panel inside Emergency Room

[Grouch1980]

Hi all,
According to the 2008 NEC, section 700.9(D)(2), equipment for emergency feeder circuits, such as transfer switches, transformers, and panels, need to be located either in spaces fully protected by a sprinkler system, or in a room with a 1-hour fire resistance rating. Are you allowed to place a normal panel (non-emergency) inside this room? From what i'm reading, the code doesn't specifically say you can't; this section doesn't specifically say that this 1-hour rated room has to be dedicated to emergency equipment.

Thanks again!

 

[Pharon]

Check 517.30(C)(1).

Edit: sorry - I read "emergency room" in the context of being in a hospital. If that's not the case, please disregard.

But check 700.9(B).

 

[roger]

Grouch, are you talking about a room for Emergency equipment or a hospital?

Roger

 

[roger]

Check 517.30(C)(1).

Edit: sorry - I read "emergency room" in the context of being in a hospital. If that's not the case, please disregard.

I thought the same thing.

Roger

 

[Grouch1980]

I thought the same thing.

Roger

Hey Roger... i'm talking about a room for emergency equipment. (not an emergency room such as in a hospital).

 

[iwire]

Mass prohibits placing emergency panels and normal panels in the same room. The NEC does not

 

[Pharon]

Mass prohibits placing emergency panels and normal panels in the same room. The NEC does not

In 2008 this was true, but I don't believe there is anything in the current Massachusetts amendments that mandates separation of normal vs. emergency equipment. At least nothing I could find:

http://www.mass.gov/eopss/docs/dfs/osfm/cmr/527cmr12-00.pdf

 

[Grouch1980]

so the NEC doesn't prohibit placing normal panels inside an emergency equipment room?

 

[roger]

so the NEC doesn't prohibit placing normal panels inside an emergency equipment room?

That's correct.

Roger

 

[Pharon]

That's correct.

Roger

As long as it's not a health care facility, that is.

 

[roger]

As long as it's not a health care facility, that is.

The NEC doesn't prohibit it in health care facilities either.

Roger

 

[Grouch1980]

Thanks everyone for the help!

 

[Pharon]

The NEC doesn't prohibit it in health care facilities either.

Roger

517.30(C)(1):

Separation from Other Circuits. The life safety branch
and critical branch of the essential electrical system shall be
kept entirely independent of all other wiring and equipment
and shall not enter the same raceways, boxes, or cabinets with
each other or other wiring.

 

[roger]

517.30(C)(1):

Separation from Other Circuits. The life safety branch
and critical branch of the essential electrical system shall be
kept entirely independent of all other wiring and equipment
and shall not enter the same raceways, boxes, or cabinets with
each other or other wiring.

The OP is not asking about mixing wiring in raceways, boxes, or cabinets, he is asking about a Normal Branch panel being in a room with Essential Panels etc...

The equipment can be in the same spaces and still be "entirely independent" of other wiring and equipment.

Roger

 

[Pharon]

The OP is not asking about mixing wiring in raceways, boxes, or cabinets, he is asking about a Normal Branch panel being in a room with Essential Panels etc...

The equipment can be in the same spaces and still be "entirely independent" of other wiring and equipment.

Roger

Interesting. I have always read that to mean that critical and life safety panels needed to be separated from normal and equipment branch panels, and could only be combined in a common ATS room. But a closer look indicates that all it's saying is that raceways and panels cannot share wiring of different systems.

Mind. Blown.

 

[Grouch1980]

Sometimes the language of the code is not easy! Just one or two words can change the entire meaning of a paragraph.

 

[iwire]

In 2008 this was true, but I don't believe there is anything in the current Massachusetts amendments that mandates separation of normal vs. emergency equipment. At least nothing I could find:

http://www.mass.gov/eopss/docs/dfs/osfm/cmr/527cmr12-00.pdf

In 2008 MEC it was an amendment to 700.9(D) in 2011 it changed due to NEC changes and it is now via amendments to 700.10(D).

They eliminated (D)(1) which is allowance for it to be handled via a fully sprinklered room.

With that gone the easiest option is a seprate space with a 2 hour rating.

 

[Pharon]

Normal Panel inside Emergency Room

The only hospital branch that needs 2-hour separation is Life Safety. And if all panels were in a 2-hour room, that could satisfy the requirement (assuming no shared raceways/boxes, etc.).

Or, you could have the LS in its own dedicated 2-hour room and another non-rated room for the others (critical, equipment, and normal branches).

 

[iwire]

Mind. Blown.

Its a good day!