Pvc mast with metal weatherhead

[fmtjfw]

GROUND IT!

GROUND IT!

Does the NEC apply to anything above the meter? It sure thinks it does, there are provisions that require a weather head or goose neck on cable. So 250.4(A)(4) or (5) require the metallic item (the weather head) to be grounded. Case closed. OR what am I missing?

 

[K8MHZ]

Just Curious how everyone else see this

1) Mentions 'rigid conduit' and does not specify metallic. PVC is rigid conduit.

2) Specifies use on a mast. It seems to have been decided that the OP is not dealing with a mast.

I would have to take a look at the actual listing to be sure, but I will bet the metallic weather head is not listed for use with PVC.

 

[K8MHZ]

For me this is an interesting question:

I agree with the NEC references mentioned earlier.

Why does he want the weather head connected to the grounding system? It is on the POCO side so if there is a fault the service OCPD will not open up anyway. If there is a lightning strike, the conduit is non conductive so having the weather head bonded does not mean anything

I am just curious.

Why are weather heads (goose necks) that are used with service entrance cable bonded? Perhaps that's the reason the inspector is applying to the OP's situation.

 

[mwm1752]

1) Mentions 'rigid conduit' and does not specify metallic. PVC is rigid conduit.

2) Specifies use on a mast. It seems to have been decided that the OP is not dealing with a mast.

I would have to take a look at the actual listing to be sure, but I will bet the metallic weather head is not listed for use with PVC.

metal Service entrance heads attached to metal conduits are considered bonded by UL whitebook -- since they have no place for bonding termination may be a sign they are not listed to be used with PVC.

 

[growler]

does anyone know of a code reference that requires a metal weatherhead mounted to a pvc mast to be bonded? local inspector is requiring it and we can't find it in the code. I understand his reasoning behind it, but if anyone is disturbing a metal mast with live conductors, they deserve to be electrocuted. thanks!

1)

I would have to take a look at the actual listing to be sure, but I will bet the metallic weather head is not listed for use with PVC.

Yes the power company will probably laugh at you when called to kill power & disconnect cable to change out the weatherhead but that's the right thing to do.

Since the metallic weatherhead won't be glued on it shouldn't be that big of a deal to change out.

 

[K8MHZ]

Yes the power company will probably laugh at you when called to kill power & disconnect cable to change out the weatherhead but that's the right thing to do.

Since the metallic weatherhead won't be glued on it shouldn't be that big of a deal to change out.

Would it be any different if they were asked to come out to disconnect in order for an electrician to ground the metal weather head? I think that would be much funnier.

Either way, it looks like a disconnect is in order to make the installation compliant, plus there is the added benefit that PVC weather head won't look like hack work, which is what it would look like to me, metal on PVC and all...

 

[don_resqcapt19]

sorry I didn't make the wording clear. anyway, it's a pvc raceway with a metal weatherhead and the service is already energized. we know we can change the weather head to pvc, but we're looking for a code reference that says the weatherhead has to be bonded in our situation. the code doesn't really address it directly as far as we can tell.

I see nothing in the code that would permit the weatherhead to remain unbonded. Post 2 cited the code requirement. You could also cite 250.80.

You are permitted to use the grounded conductor for all required bonding on the line side of the service disconnect, so you may be able to bond it with a jumper from the neutral sized per Table 250.102(C)(1) in the 2014 code or Table 250.66 in previous codes.

 

[K8MHZ]

I see nothing in the code that would permit the weatherhead to remain unbonded. Post 2 cited the code requirement. You could also cite 250.80.

You are permitted to use the grounded conductor for all required bonding on the line side of the service disconnect, so you may be able to bond it with a jumper from the neutral sized per Table 250.102(C)(1) in the 2014 code or Table 250.66 in previous codes.

A jumper from where to where, precisely?

 

[don_resqcapt19]

A jumper from where to where, precisely?

From the grounded conductor outside of the weatherhead to the metallic weatherhead.

 

[GerryB]

I don't know why a metallic weather head was used, but isn't it the same thing if you used SEU and an seu weatherhead? I've had those that were all metal.

 

[mjf]

I don't know why a metallic weather head was used, but isn't it the same thing if you used SEU and an seu weatherhead? I've had those that were all metal.

That is an interesting point.

although, with SEU, the metal weatherhead is usually in contact with the grounded conductor.

 

[GerryB]

That is an interesting point.

although, with SEU, the metal weatherhead is usually in contact with the grounded conductor.

Right, so maybe the OP can do a cable/telephone special, wrap a #10 around the screw and the neutral.

 

[don_resqcapt19]

Does the NEC apply to anything above the meter? It sure thinks it does, there are provisions that require a weather head or goose neck on cable. So 250.4(A)(4) or (5) require the metallic item (the weather head) to be grounded. Case closed. OR what am I missing?

The NEC starts at the service point...typically on an overhead service that is the load end of the utility service drop conductors.

 

[don_resqcapt19]

Right, so maybe the OP can do a cable/telephone special, wrap a #10 around the screw and the neutral.

It is a bonding jumper that has to be sized per Table 250.102(C)(1) or Table 250.66 in older codes.

 

[mopowr steve]

Didn't anybody read the instructions a little more,
Aluminum entrance cap to be used with RMC, IMC, or EMT nothing about attaching it to Rigid PVC Conduit.
Suprised the inspector didn't just tell you to change it.

 

[Smart $]

The specific Code section which requires the weatherhead to be bonded is 250.92.

 

[JFletcher]

Code is 250.4(A)(5)

The specific Code section which requires the weatherhead to be bonded is 250.92.

What does the 2014 NEC say on these two articles? I have the 2008, and those code citations do not seem to fit.

Wouldnt the metal head be in contact with the neutral anyway? an since it's isolated by a RPVC pole/mast/riser, why a bonding jumper to it at all? Bonding this piece of metal upstream of OCPD and more or less isolated from other metal is accomplishing what, exactly (other than possibly satisfying code)?

 

[ActionDave]

What does the 2014 NEC say on these two articles? I have the 2008, and those code citations do not seem to fit.

250.4(A)(4) should be the same as '08.
Here's the other reference from '11

250.92 Services
(A) Bonding of Equipment for Services. The normally
non–current-carrying metal parts of equipment indicated in
250.92(A)(1) and (A)(2) shall be bonded together.
(1) All raceways, cable trays, cablebus framework, auxil-
iary gutters, or service cable armor or sheath that en-
close, contain, or support service conductors,except as
permitted in 250.80
(2) All enclosures containing service conductors, including
meter fittings, boxes, or the like, interposed in the ser-
vice raceway or armor

Wouldnt the metal head be in contact with the neutral anyway?

The plate inside the weather head that the conductors emerge from is plastic so the the metal will be isolated unless some of the insulation wears off the conductors under the weather head.

and since it's isolated by a RPVC pole/mast/riser, why a bonding jumper to it at all? Bonding this piece of metal upstream of OCPD and more or less isolated from other metal is accomplishing what, exactly (other than possibly satisfying code)?

Just because it's ahead of the OCPD doesn't matter. All of the POCO metal parts are bonded to the earth. If something happens, one in a thousand chance, and the weather head becomes energized by one of the ungrounded conductors then you will have a shock hazard. It might go unnoticed forever but it's still something to be avoided.

 

[Smart $]

What does the 2014 NEC say on these two articles? I have the 2008, and those code citations do not seem to fit.

Wouldnt the metal head be in contact with the neutral anyway? an since it's isolated by a RPVC pole/mast/riser, why a bonding jumper to it at all? Bonding this piece of metal upstream of OCPD and more or less isolated from other metal is accomplishing what, exactly (other than possibly satisfying code)?

I don't believe there is any change to these sections in 2014 edition.

The only way the weatherhead would be in contact with the neutral is if you run bare conductor through the riser... and without an intentional solid connection, there's a chance of no contact at all.

The weatherhead may be upstream of an NEC-related OCPD, but service transformers have cutouts or some other protection scheme. At the very least, you'd want to let the smoke out of transformer before smoking the house

PS: Sorry for the delayed reply. I see "AD" already covered the issue, but I had the preceding response typed up prior to retiring for the evening. Thought it was reasonable to post anyway rather than having wasted the time typing it up...

 

[kwired]

Does the NEC apply to anything above the meter? It sure thinks it does, there are provisions that require a weather head or goose neck on cable. So 250.4(A)(4) or (5) require the metallic item (the weather head) to be grounded. Case closed. OR what am I missing?

The NEC starts at the service point...typically on an overhead service that is the load end of the utility service drop conductors.

Bingo, if it is on the utility side of service point, NEC doesn't apply. Also if it is on the utility side - quite often the utility company is the installer. Sometimes the contractor installs initially but utility takes over maintaining it. Really is dependent on POCO and will vary from place to place.

I seldom see any local POCO's install PVC weatherheads when they are the installer - but they don't follow NEC. Some don't even use weatherheads, just some duct seal in the top of an otherwise open conduit.

I have come across metallic weather heads with grounding lugs on them. Most were used on metal raceway and never really had a need to use the lug though.