Home Inspector problems.........

[electrofelon]

FWIW, I dont understand the claims that a receptacle is not required in a "half bath". Really?? A toilet without a sink? I have never ever seen or heard of that - not in 'merica anyway.

 

[iwire]

And on the other side of the coin I do. As K8MHZ he is wrong to say "Install GFCI protected outlet" seemingly to imply a receptacle was required by the NEC or some code. If the house was built before the 71 cycle I don't think a bathroom receptacle was required.

IMO It has nothing to do with what the code requires, or required at the time. It is not a code inspection.

We agree here And they should never include a demand in a report, so when this HI made the statement to "Install a receptacle" and not make it clear that it was just an opinion he was wrong IMO.

Not having read the report for myself I will not get into this.

 

[roger]

It is not a code inspection.

You and I both know that but do the laymen such as the buyer and seller? Many unknowing would think the title of Home Inspector holds some weight as a code expert.

Not having read the report for myself I will not get into this.

I haven't read it either, I am just going by what the OP has stated.

FWIW, I am not anti HI and in fact have defended them in a number of threads but OTOH, I won't defend them if they are overstepping their bounds.

Roger

 

[Hendrix]

Are we so insecure that we have to prove we know more than the untrained? :?

I know I am:lol:

 

[david]

Have an inspection report with multiple write ups, one in particular is (install GFCI in half bath--no outlet present). Really? He's going to write this up and try to make the seller pay for an installation on an outlet that doesn't even exist? I say try because the buyer is requesting the seller to repair all electrical write ups. My opinion on the situation is that the home was wired to standards at that time(1970) and that he shouldn't word his write up to say "Install GFCI" when no outlet is even there. What are your professional opinions?

You have not clarified if the half bath in question meets the definitive of a bathroom. Just for your information i searched and your city does in fact require a rec. in a dwelling bath room

Virginia Beach City Code
VIRGINIA UNIFORM STATEWIDE BUILDING CODE (USBC)
012 VA Maintenance Code
(2nd Printing)

605.2 Receptacles.
Every habitable space in a dwelling shall contain at least two separate and remote receptacle outlets. Every laundry area shall contain at least one grounding-type receptacle or a receptacle with a ground fault circuit interrupter. Every bathroom shall contain at least one receptacle. Any new bathroom receptacle outlet shall have ground fault circuit interrupter protection. All receptacle outlets shall have the appropriate faceplate cover for the location.

 

[Little Bill]

I don't see the sense in a city having a building code that contains electrical requirements and at the same time is under the NEC.

An electrician could very well do everything required under the NEC and be in violation of a building code. They either need to have just the NEC for electrical or go by the building code if it contains electrical requirements. Or the requirements need to be the same.

 

[kwired]

I don't see the sense in a city having a building code that contains electrical requirements and at the same time is under the NEC.

An electrician could very well do everything required under the NEC and be in violation of a building code. They either need to have just the NEC for electrical or go by the building code if it contains electrical requirements. Or the requirements need to be the same.

Or do what other places do when they don't like something in the NEC and use what is commonly called amendments

 

[gadfly56]

:thumbsup:

We now need an attorney to sell a home? A few rare cases I can understand. Apparently we all chose the wrong profession.

In NJ it ain't happening without one. Or actually, at least two, yours and their's. I doubt a mortgage underwriter in NJ would let you not have a lawyer.

 

[mgookin]

I don't see the sense in a city having a building code that contains electrical requirements and at the same time is under the NEC.

An electrician could very well do everything required under the NEC and be in violation of a building code. They either need to have just the NEC for electrical or go by the building code if it contains electrical requirements. Or the requirements need to be the same.

The NEC code is a Building Construction Code meaning if you build a building, this is how we do it.

The housing maintenance code is a post-construction maintenance code for buildings and premises.

And you're right, it does happen where someone applies for a permit, follows every code, gets a CO, and they are immediately in violation of the post-construction maintenance code. Do you run out there, shut them down and write them up? Of course not, but some anal bureaucrat could probably get away with it.

 

[david]

I don't see the sense in a city having a building code that contains electrical requirements and at the same time is under the NEC.

An electrician could very well do everything required under the NEC and be in violation of a building code. They either need to have just the NEC for electrical or go by the building code if it contains electrical requirements. Or the requirements need to be the same.

I see the NEC as not being retroactive.

The property maint code on the other hand does intend that all existing properties in this discussion dwellings met that codes min standard.

The NEC through the existing building code will be the code that applies to alterations and most repairs to a structures existing electrical system.

However, in this state (PA.) most alterations and all repairs to a dwelling are exempt from the uniform construction code and there by exempt from the NEC. The municipalities that adopt a property maint code can require a ground fault rec. in a dwelling bathroom through the property maint. ordinances

 

[kwired]

In NJ it ain't happening without one. Or actually, at least two, yours and their's. I doubt a mortgage underwriter in NJ would let you not have a lawyer.

Apparently nobody trusts anybody else there. Do some people take an attorney with them when grocery shopping as well?

 

[jumper]

You have not clarified if the half bath in question meets the definitive of a bathroom. Just for your information i searched and your city does in fact require a rec. in a dwelling bath room

Virginia Beach City Code
VIRGINIA UNIFORM STATEWIDE BUILDING CODE (USBC)
012 VA Maintenance Code
(2nd Printing)

605.2 Receptacles.
Every habitable space in a dwelling shall contain at least two separate and remote receptacle outlets. Every laundry area shall contain at least one grounding-type receptacle or a receptacle with a ground fault circuit interrupter. Every bathroom shall contain at least one receptacle. Any new bathroom receptacle outlet shall have ground fault circuit interrupter protection. All receptacle outlets shall have the appropriate faceplate cover for the location.

I really doubt that the that the VMC of the VUSBC applies here.

In general it is applied to vacant, rental, or dilapidated buildings.

 

[jumper]

The property maint code on the other hand does intend that all existing properties in this discussion dwellings met that codes min standard.

Nope

103.2 Maintenance requirements. Buildings and struc-tures shall be maintained and kept in good repair in ac-cordance with the requirements of this code and when ap-plicable in accordance with the USBC under which such building or structure was constructed. No provision of this code shall require alterations to be made to an existing building or structure or to equipment unless conditions are present which meet the definition of an unsafe structure or a structure unfit for human occupancy.

The lack of a receptacle in a 1/2 bath is not going to fit the criteria above.

 

[jumper]

I don't see the sense in a city having a building code that contains electrical requirements and at the same time is under the NEC.

An electrician could very well do everything required under the NEC and be in violation of a building code. They either need to have just the NEC for electrical or go by the building code if it contains electrical requirements. Or the requirements need to be the same.

VA has statewide codes with amendments. Local amendments are not allowed.

The applicable code here would be the IRC with amendments.

 

[gadfly56]

VA has statewide codes with amendments. Local amendments are not allowed.

The applicable code here would be the IRC with amendments.

Is the maintenance code retroactive?

 

[jumper]

Is the maintenance code retroactive?

In general no, unless unsafe.

103.3 Continued approval. Notwithstanding any provi-sion of this code to the contrary, alterations shall not be required to be made to existing buildings or structures which are occupied in accordance with a certificate of oc-cupancy issued under any edition of the USBC.

 

[iwire]

In general no, unless unsafe.

Which would be an entirely abtrary call by the AHJ, not the EC, HI or HO.

 

[jumper]

Which would be an entirely abtrary call by the AHJ, not the EC, HI or HO.

Correct.

 

[david]

Is the maintenance code retroactive?

in this state it is and apparently in VA. only when it is a rental property or possibly when a complaint has been made

103.4 Rental inspections.

In accordance with Section 36-105.1:1 of the Code of Virginia, these provisions are applicable to rental inspection programs. For purposes of this section:

 

[Ingenieur]

You have not clarified if the half bath in question meets the definitive of a bathroom. Just for your information i searched and your city does in fact require a rec. in a dwelling bath room

Virginia Beach City Code
VIRGINIA UNIFORM STATEWIDE BUILDING CODE (USBC)
012 VA Maintenance Code
(2nd Printing)

605.2 Receptacles.
Every habitable space in a dwelling shall contain at least two separate and remote receptacle outlets. Every laundry area shall contain at least one grounding-type receptacle or a receptacle with a ground fault circuit interrupter. Every bathroom shall contain at least one receptacle. Any new bathroom receptacle outlet shall have ground fault circuit interrupter protection. All receptacle outlets shall have the appropriate faceplate cover for the location.

only applies to new construction?
or renovations of a certain scope
does not include transactions of single family dwellings

2. SECTION 103APPLICATION OF CODE
   

103.1 General. In accordance with Section 36-99 of the Code of Virginia, the USBC shall prescribe building regulations tobe complied with in the construction and rehabilitation of buildings and structures, and the equipment therein.