Inspectors and calling items

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wrobotronic

wrobotronic

Senior Member
Location
Colorado
Hi All,
As some of you might know I am a relatively new electrical inspector. I had an inspection at a house remodel. I have failed the electrician several times. On a recent inspection for dry wall, i was called in to take a look at some of the romex going to the device boxes. I figured a rotozip got hung up and tore up some wires, no big deal. However, when i went to the property, i started looking in the boxes and noticed that many of them had the romex scored and the copper was exposed. I obviously missed this on previous inspections and i recognize that fact. Now that I have seen the issue, i have instructed the electrician that all of these need to be fixed. Holy smokes, did he lose his mind. I do not blame him, I missed it. I told him that luckily we found it now and not at final when the place was fully complete. He is basically refusing to fix this issue since I have already signed the rough inspection. Why he wants to go this route is beyond me, and he must know that he will certainly not pass his final. Does anyone have any advice on how to handle this? Obviously, I want the house to be safe and the way it sits now, it is not. I understand that I missed this, and inspectors miss things all the time, which is not an excuse, just a fact. So, any advice to help handle this would be appreciated. Thank you very much.
 
just the cowboy

just the cowboy

Inactive, Email Never Verified
Location
newburgh,ny
What do you mean by scored

What do you mean by scored

What do you mean by the romax is scored and copper showing?
Is the romax just backing out of the box and not enough in or did they actualy nick the insulatioion.
 
roger

roger

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Staff member
Location
Fl
Occupation
Retired Electrician
wrobotronic said:
Hi All,
As some of you might know I am a relatively new electrical inspector. I had an inspection at a house remodel. I have failed the electrician several times. On a recent inspection for dry wall, i was called in to take a look at some of the romex going to the device boxes. I figured a rotozip got hung up and tore up some wires, no big deal. However, when i went to the property, i started looking in the boxes and noticed that many of them had the romex scored and the copper was exposed. I obviously missed this on previous inspections and i recognize that fact. Now that I have seen the issue, i have instructed the electrician that all of these need to be fixed. Holy smokes, did he lose his mind. I do not blame him, I missed it. I told him that luckily we found it now and not at final when the place was fully complete. He is basically refusing to fix this issue since I have already signed the rough inspection. Why he wants to go this route is beyond me, and he must know that he will certainly not pass his final. Does anyone have any advice on how to handle this? Obviously, I want the house to be safe and the way it sits now, it is not. I understand that I missed this, and inspectors miss things all the time, which is not an excuse, just a fact. So, any advice to help handle this would be appreciated. Thank you very much.
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Do you note on your red tag that the reason for the failed inspection is due to other parties so the electrician can have ammunition to ask for compensation to fix the damage?

If it's just the insulation inside a box good electrical tape would take care of it IMO.

Roger
 
P

petersonra

Senior Member
Location
Northern illinois
Occupation
engineer
roger said:
Do you note on your red tag that the reason for the failed inspection is due to other parties so the electrician can have ammunition to ask for compensation to fix the damage?

If it's just the insulation inside a box good electrical tape would take care of it IMO.

Roger
Click to expand...

I agree on both points.
 
wrobotronic

wrobotronic

Senior Member
Location
Colorado
just the cowboy said:
What do you mean by the romax is scored and copper showing?
Is the romax just backing out of the box and not enough in or did they actualy nick the insulatioion.
Click to expand...

When the romex was installed, it appears he took a knife and rung it out to get his tails and consequently completely cut though the insulation and exposing the copper.
 
wrobotronic

wrobotronic

Senior Member
Location
Colorado
roger said:
Do you note on your red tag that the reason for the failed inspection is due to other parties so the electrician can have ammunition to ask for compensation to fix the damage?

If it's just the insulation inside a box good electrical tape would take care of it IMO.

Roger
Click to expand...

It was not failed due to other parties. The romex conductors were cut through down to the insulation when it was installed. My initial thought was that a rotozip did the damage but as it turns out the electrician caused the damage.
 
iwire

iwire

Moderator
Staff member
Location
Massachusetts
Devil's advocate here.

Assuming the bare copper is inside the enclosure and there are no shorts what code section did you use to fail the job?
 
wrobotronic

wrobotronic

Senior Member
Location
Colorado
iwire said:
Devil's advocate here.

Assuming the bare copper is inside the enclosure and there are no shorts what code section did you use to fail the job?
Click to expand...

I failed him on 110.3A(my judgement was that the insulation had been compromised, therefore the rating) 110.12B (on top of the workmanlike manner statement, "there shall be no damaged parts, that may adversely affect safe operation..." The conductors are clearly damaged)
 
roger

roger

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Staff member
Location
Fl
Occupation
Retired Electrician
wrobotronic said:
I failed him on 110.3A(my judgement was that the insulation had been compromised, therefore the rating)
Click to expand...
And as stated, insulation can be repaired.

wrobotronic said:
110.12B (on top of the workmanlike manner statement, "there shall be no damaged parts, that may adversely affect safe operation..." The conductors are clearly damaged)
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110.12(B) does not mention conductor insulation, and even if it did, after it was repaired it would not affect safe operation.

As an aside, "workmanlike" is not defined and the NFPA style manual states it is possibly unenforceable and a vague term.

Roger
 
Sierrasparky

Sierrasparky

Senior Member
Location
USA
Occupation
Electrician ,contractor
As long as the outer jacket is not compromised behind the drywall then the insulation can be repaired with tape or proper shrink tubing. Don't see the issue.
 
Sierrasparky

Sierrasparky

Senior Member
Location
USA
Occupation
Electrician ,contractor
jumper said:
The issue is that the electrician does not want to fix it.
Click to expand...
My understanding is the EC does not want to re-wire the situation. That is what is refused. Inspector appears to not accept tape products and wants new NM.
 
mopowr steve

mopowr steve

Senior Member
Location
NW Ohio
Occupation
Electrical contractor
I myself would look real close at the cut insulation and see if the copper was nicked; if so, I would have him at least try to pull enough wire into box to remake without comprimised conductor. Explain that nicks of the copper effectively derate its capacity for current flow causing a hot spots and also creates a place to break off.
Otherwise if copper is OK then electric tape should be acceptable.

Also tell him to quit using a utility knife and use a electricians sheepfoot blade knife it's less likely to cut into the conductors especially if it's a little on the dull side.
 
augie47

augie47

Moderator
Staff member
Location
Tennessee
Occupation
State Electrical Inspector (Retired)
If it became a legal issue I don't think he could avoid addressing the situation just because you missed it on rough-in.
I would let him know that it is no going to pass Final until the situation is addressed and that you are willing to work with him for an acceptable repair.
That unfortunately is a judgement call. If you are comfortable the copper itself was not comprised, tape or shrink tubing might be acceptable.
From a pragmatic and liability standpoint I would get your supervisor involved to both cover yourself with the decision and to let the electrician know it's a "department" call and not a vendetta.
 
wrobotronic

wrobotronic

Senior Member
Location
Colorado
ActionDave said:
Are the conductors clearly damaged or just the insulation? Insulation can be repaired.
Click to expand...

Yes. I am sorry. My words were not chosen correctly. The insulation is cut and the copper is exposed. I did not see that the copper itself was damaged. He can repair the existing wire easily, tape, shrink tube, etc.

my question was more along the lines that this was not caught on previous inspections and that is why the EC is angry... So on and so forth...
 
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