Service change question

[jaykilty]

Just completed a service change, meter socket was turned into a pedestal type with a main 200 amp breaker installed at the pedestal. The main panel has now become a MLO The grounding electrode conductor goes back to the main breaker and I have installed a equipment ground between main breaker and panel. The inspector now wants me to replace all three wire 220 volt loads with four wire conductors. This is new to me any idea of what article I should check out

 

[Dennis Alwon]

Firstly if it is a pedestal then you need to run a 4 wire to the house and the existing panel needs a main breaker or must follow the 6 handle rule. The grounding electrode conductor should go to the hose panel and get connected to the ground bar with the neutral isolated. The pedestal would also need a grounding electrode conductor.

 

[Dennis Alwon]

The inspector now wants me to replace all three wire 220 volt loads with four wire conductors. This is new to me any idea of what article I should check out

This is a gray area but IMO the inspector is correct. When you made the panel a sub panel that made the 240V 3 wire loads a violations--- range and dryer I presume. Bob may be better equipped to answer this since he is from Ma. There may be an amendment on it IDK

 

[david]

Just completed a service change, meter socket was turned into a pedestal type with a main 200 amp breaker installed at the pedestal. The main panel has now become a MLO The grounding electrode conductor goes back to the main breaker and I have installed a equipment ground between main breaker and panel. The inspector now wants me to replace all three wire 220 volt loads with four wire conductors. This is new to me any idea of what article I should check out

Are the existing 240 volt Rec. you are referring to existing dryer or range circuits feed with service entrance cable?

edit: Never mind, I type slower than he does

 

[GoldDigger]

This is a gray area but IMO the inspector is correct. When you made the panel a sub panel that made the 240V 3 wire loads a violations--- range and dryer I presume. Bob may be better equipped to answer this since he is from Ma. There may be an amendment on it IDK

Depends on what the cable is. Only those with uninsulated neutral need to run back specifically to service panel, yes?

 

[jaykilty]

Yes I have a four conductor running to the home. My grounding and main breaker configuration passed inspection. But not the stove, dryer, and water heater conductors. All are 3 wire

 

[Dennis Alwon]

Depends on what the cable is. Only those with uninsulated neutral need to run back specifically to service panel, yes?

That is correct-- usually these old homes were done with seu cable

 

[david]

Yes I have a four conductor running to the home. My grounding and main breaker configuration passed inspection. But not the stove, dryer, and water heater conductors. All are 3 wire

I would ask again about the water heater. I wouldn't think it had a Neutral

 

[Dennis Alwon]

Yes I have a four conductor running to the home. My grounding and main breaker configuration passed inspection. But not the stove, dryer, and water heater conductors. All are 3 wire

The water heater only needs 240V and an equipment grounding conductor so what is the problem there? Is the 3 wire to the range and dryer part of an seu cable (uninsulated grounded conductor)?

 

[jaykilty]

Only the stove is type seu cable, but still I just don't see the problem,

 

[Dennis Alwon]

I would ask again about the water heater. I wouldn't think it had a Neutral

I have never seen one with a neutral so I am confused on that also.

 

[Dennis Alwon]

Only the stove is type seu cable, but still I just don't see the problem,

The problem is that the nec states the seu must originate at the service panel. The panel at the house is not a service panel but a sub panel.

 

[Dennis Alwon]

Here is the section

Exception: For existing branch-circuit installations only
where an equipment grounding conductor is not present in
the outlet or junction box, the frames of electric ranges,
wall-mounted ovens, counter-mounted cooking units,
clothes dryers, and outlet or junction boxes that are part of
the circuit for these appliances shall be permitted to be
connected to the grounded circuit conductor if all the following
conditions are met.
(1) The supply circuit is 120/240-volt, single-phase, 3-wire;
or 208Y/120-volt derived from a 3-phase, 4-wire, wyeconnected
system.
(2) The grounded conductor is not smaller than 10 AWG
copper or 8 AWG aluminum.
(3) The grounded conductor is insulated, or the grounded
conductor is uninsulated and part of a Type SE serviceentrance
cable and the branch circuit originates at the
service equipment.
(4) Grounding contacts of receptacles furnished as part of
the equipment are bonded to the equipment.

 

[david]

The problem is that the nec states the seu must originate at the service panel. The panel at the house is not a service panel but a sub panel.

Only the stove is type seu cable, but still I just don't see the problem,

as Dennis indicated you cannot create a violation that was not existing prior to your new installation .

 

[david]

as Dennis indicated you cannot create a violation that was not existing prior to your new installation .

That would be the same thing as running a four wire feeder and not isolating the Nuetral from the bonded equipment ground. Thinking the service panel was existing

 

[jaykilty]

what I would really like to know is the article that requires me to replace these conductors. Because no matter what I am going to have to do it

 

[Dennis Alwon]

what I would really like to know is the article that requires me to replace these conductors. Because no matter what I am going to have to do it

I posted the article and David explained why you cannot use it in your case. Some areas will let it go but IMO, it is a violation

 

[jaykilty]

Well I learned something new today. Thank you

 

[david]

Just completed a service change, meter socket was turned into a pedestal type with a main 200 amp breaker installed at the pedestal. The main panel has now become a MLO The grounding electrode conductor goes back to the main breaker and I have installed a equipment ground between main breaker and panel. The inspector now wants me to replace all three wire 220 volt loads with four wire conductors. This is new to me any idea of what article I should check out

I don't want to read into this,but how many breakers are in the MLO panel. You indicated range dryer and water heater. that leads me to think you have more than six mains

 

[Dennis Alwon]

I don't want to read into this,but how many breakers are in the MLO panel. You indicated range dryer and water heater. that leads me to think you have more than six mains

That's where I was going earlier but the op said it passed but I am not certain what that means. Unless he converted to a main breaker kit I suspect it is not compliant