Do you charge for drive time on commercial jobs priced as hrly labor?

[solarken]

I am hoping to get as many responses as possible to this, kind of a survey.

For small commercial job, say a 5 day span of work installing conduit and disconnects, etc, with the job quoted per man-hour for labor, no materials:
1. Do you bill from the time your guy(s) arrive in am and start working til the time they are done cleaning up and leaving for the day?
2. Do you bill (and pay your guys) for drive time to and from the site?
3. Regarding (2) above, is there some threshold of drive time that changes the answer? For example, if 1-way drive is 30 minutes? 1 hour? Other?
4. As for truck/gas costs, do you add into overhead and incorporate into the hrly man-hour rate charged for the labor?

I am not asking about many little service calls that may take an hour or 2 at each customer site, which would involve significant driving time relative to onsite work time, I am only talking about going to one site, doing the work, and leaving.

Thanks, Ken

 

[TwoBlocked]

My company bills for each worker leaving his house to arriving back. We each have a company truck. Some parts of the company have a lesser rate for travel for some customers, but not here. Most of our work is technical type work - gas industry control and indication. As the only electrician I will deal with the AC power and also run a crew to install conduit and conductors and make connections.

Been trying to win bids for more basic type installations, like cables in compressor stations, but can't compete with larger outfits that have less technical, lower paid workers.

 

[jbrown]

If the job requires a half hour or more for one way travel time I include it in billable time. For smaller jobs, I have a 2-1/2 hour minimum labor charge.

 

[mtnelect]

Outside our service area, we charge travel time round trip.

 

[petersonra]

We charge door to door.

If you have to pay your employees for that time you need to pay for it somehow.

 

[mtnelect]

Inside our service area we charge a "Diagnostic" of $75.00, no travel time charge.

 

[solarken]

We charge door to door.

If you have to pay your employees for that time you need to pay for it somehow.

In general, employees do not get paid for commute time to work, their work day starts when they arrive at place of work, and it stops when they leave their place of work. I think the nuance is that if a lot of driving becomes part of the job, like driving from short appointment to short appointment thru-out the day, that to me is different. But that is not the scenario I am asking about. What I am trying to understand is, how many contractors pay their employees for the time when they leave their home til they get home, such that at times, they are only working on a job site for 6 or 6.5 or 7 hrs (1hr drive, 45min drive, 30min drive)? Seems unfair to a customer to get only 6hrs of work out of a crew when they paid for 8.

 

[solarken]

Outside our service area, we charge travel time round trip.

Is there a drive time radius you can share for your service area?

 

[solarken]

Inside our service area we charge a "Diagnostic" of $75.00, no travel time charge.

My scenario is not about service/diagnostics, it is about commercial installation work, like running conduit, installing switchgear, etc., longer term work not fixing a short term problem. So no travel charge inside your service area? No Diagnostic charge either for this work?

 

[mtnelect]

Is there a drive time radius you can share for your service area?

Go to our website, MountainElectricCompany.com the cities are listed.

 

[mtnelect]

My scenario is not about service/diagnostics, it is about commercial installation work, like running conduit, installing switchgear, etc., longer term work not fixing a short term problem. So no travel charge inside your service area? No Diagnostic charge either for this work?

Mainly we do Maintenance Contracts for Air Conditioning - Heating - Electrical for warehouses. They are all charged yearly, no travel time. Estimates are given for any work outside the contracts.

 

[gene6]

Where I work your expected to show up at the shop get in a van and go to the job, you get paid from the time you arrive at the shop till the time you get back.
A few of us get to take vans home, especially if your willing to be 'on call' on a rotating weekend.
In regards to (2) drive time pay for those of us with take home vans is 'calculated' as the time it would take to drive from our shop to the jobsite the most direct route, if the job is outside of a 20 mile radius from the shop.

I live an hour (1.5 in traffic) from our shop so I sometimes get extra sometimes less.
Also I like to drive a different route / different bridges due to stops I need to make, kids schools etc, so I don't really care about the 'most direct route'.

In regards to (4) Boss man or his estimating service adds the cost of the drive time / vans / trucks to the materials markup.
I can drive up to 4 'calculated' hours per day if its over that we get a per diem for a hotel, however I never get a hotel I just drive home to the family, the per diem is also added to the job cost.

 

[Fred B]

I'd be curious if those that charge travel have a lower rate to those that don't charge travel, or those that don't charge simply charge a higher rate.
Most employees are required to be paid from the time they get to the shop to when they return. If they use personal vehicles a little different, if travel to job more than travel to shop they get travel one way. Some of the criteria is dictacted by DOL.

 

[gene6]

I'd be curious if those that charge travel have a lower rate to those that don't charge travel, or those that don't charge simply charge a higher rate.
Most employees are required to be paid from the time they get to the shop to when they return. If they use personal vehicles a little different, if travel to job more than travel to shop they get travel one way. Some of the criteria is dictacted by DOL.

Our labor rates are probably lower than the standard rate in the areas we travel to like down in the city. On a 5 day job like the OP is asking about the labor rate wont be hourly rather a bid for the whole job or it will be per man-day and the customer is not allowed to supply stuff like conduit and wire.
All the customer has to provide is parking with loading dock access and a working bathroom, which is surprisingly difficult for them..but I digress.
Change orders will have an hourly rate.

 

[electrofelon]

My scenario is not about service/diagnostics, it is about commercial installation work, like running conduit, installing switchgear, etc., longer term work not fixing a short term problem. So no travel charge inside your service area? No Diagnostic charge either for this work?

I would say mostly it's when you arrive at the jobsite. Seems most who are talking about charging for drive time are talking about service and emergency work. For a "regular" T&M job IMO most everyone starts time when arriving on site.

 

[ptonsparky]

I paid from the the moment they got to the shop until return. If their day, or portion of it, was assigned to a particular job, it was charged out
Small Company and employee hours started/stopped when they did.
Those that drove themselves from home to the jobsite in personal vehicles got paid from arrival until departure.

 

[ptonsparky]

Those with company vehicles got paid from the moment the phone call was answered. Yup, even putting their shorts on.

 

[petersonra]

In general, employees do not get paid for commute time to work, their work day starts when they arrive at place of work, and it stops when they leave their place of work. I think the nuance is that if a lot of driving becomes part of the job, like driving from short appointment to short appointment thru-out the day, that to me is different. But that is not the scenario I am asking about. What I am trying to understand is, how many contractors pay their employees for the time when they leave their home til they get home, such that at times, they are only working on a job site for 6 or 6.5 or 7 hrs (1hr drive, 45min drive, 30min drive)? Seems unfair to a customer to get only 6hrs of work out of a crew when they paid for 8.

How fair is it to your employees to expect them to drive two hours each way for free?

 

[electrofelon]

How fair is it to your employees to expect them to drive two hours each way for free?

Commuting is a part of life, nearly everyone has to do it. If an employee goes to the shop to get the company vehicle, then yes his time starts when he gets to the shop, but in general I don't think the customer is getting (directly ) charged for that employee's time driving from the shop to the job, that is built into the overhead and hourly rate in most cases I would say. At least in my world, 99% of customers are going to balk if you charge them for drive Time for a T&m job that is not service, emergency, or specialty type of work.

 

[solarken]

How fair is it to your employees to expect them to drive two hours each way for free?

Who said anything about not paying employees if they have to drive two hours each way? The whole purpose of this post was to get input from all of you about what you do in your businesses, and what we can perceive that is fair. I do believe there is a threshold of drive time where the employee should be paid, and maybe even the customer should be billed for that excessive travel time. But what is that threshold, 30min? 1hr? 1.5hr?

I also believe that in general, no one, no matter the profession, gets paid for a typical commute to work. Lawyers don't, doctors don't, office workers don't. However, as electrofelon pointed out, it is likely common in the electrical contractor world that if an employee drives to a shop to pick up a vehicle or materials, that the drive to the shop is not compensated, but the drive from the shop to the jobsite is compensated. But how is that cost allocated on a T&M job that is not a service? Is it built into the overhead within the hourly labor rate, or added hrs tacked onto the on-site timesheet hrs?

The issue is if travel time is added to the onsite work time and billed separately instead of within the hourly rate, then the customer needs to be told that, right? If the added travel time (and so cost) will be significant, then the customer would have the option of going with a different contractor, that is more local and with lower or no travel cost added.