Light Under Kitchen Sink

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mc5w

Senior Member
One time back in the 1970s I installed a light underneath grandmother's kitchen sink. She was jumping up and down happy about this thing because she could see her pots and pans.

Your input about this idea for lights UNDER the kitchen counter:

1. Do you think it would sell?

2. Do you see any pitfalls?

3. Which control method would you use?

a. Manual light switch. ( Might forget to turn on or off. )

b. Some type of limit switch that runs off of the doors. ( Might act as a meat hook. )

c. Install a motion sensing wall switch such that it will sense a hand or head?
 

George Stolz

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Windsor, CO NEC: 2017
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Re: Light Under Kitchen Sink

Originally posted by mc5w:
1. Do you think it would sell?
It costs nothing to try to sell it, but I think the cost might be prohibitive. A motion sensing switch is at least $20, plus the cost of an undercabinet light per cabinet. I think rich people wanting gadgets would really enjoy it. :)

2. Do you see any pitfalls?
I could see an application of the restrictions of 410.8 into this installation, which could halt the whole idea. While technically not applicable, I believe an inspector would be justified in failing it and requiring a lot of arm-twisting to allow it.

3. Which control method would you use?

a. Manual light switch. ( Might forget to turn on or off. ) I agree, no good.

b. Some type of limit switch that runs off of the doors. ( Might act as a meat hook. ) you'd wind up with six times as much work as option C.

c. Install a motion sensing wall switch such that it will sense a hand or head?
I'd like this option best. A switch would cover both doors of a cabinet, and if a door is left open and unattended, the light will turn off.
I'd say that if the restrictions of 410.8 were applied to this installation, a strong argument for your case would be:

  • clothes closets are not similar to kitchen cabinets in that clothes are combustible, and that pots and pans are not.
  • 410.8 addresses closets, these are not.
I would definutely use a lower temperature light like a fluorescent, unless you can find a fast switch. :)

[ March 26, 2005, 08:36 AM: Message edited by: georgestolz ]
 
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dillon3c

Senior Member
Re: Light Under Kitchen Sink

I don't know what the (what alls) that are under my kitchen sink,but its not pots and pans.I'd need to sit on the floor and pull it out,or ask the wife.

I think she's supporting most every chemical company in the US...And some of them are in pressurized cans..I'd bet I'd couldn't find in Webster Elemetary Edition,what all is involved under that sink.

( guess I could vent it to the outside with a fart-fan w/ four air changes per hour though )

On another note,Good morning Mr Stolz Sir.. :D

[ March 26, 2005, 09:12 AM: Message edited by: dillon3c ]
 

electricmanscott

Senior Member
Location
Boston, MA
Re: Light Under Kitchen Sink

George you are joking right? 410.8? "Luminaires in clothes closets". Honey could you grab my pants ? Where are they sweetie? Under the sink, Duh! :D
Oh and it is now a hazardous location? :eek:
Are we starting the morning witha little something extra in our coffee?
 

mc5w

Senior Member
Re: Light Under Kitchen Sink

A motion detecting wall switch could cover 4 doors if installed right underneath the counter and turned 90 degrees horizontally from the normal position so that the sensor faces down. The distance limit would be how high the pots and pans are piled.

One limit switch that I have in mind would be a very SMALL inductive limit switch that is in a hole in the woodwork. The switch would be 6 millimeters in diameter and would sense a small metal plate in the door. It would not be a meathook. I would need 1 for each door and it would have to be hooked up to a 24 volt DC power supply and relay. 1 relay could serve several limit switches and lights.
 

George Stolz

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Location
Windsor, CO NEC: 2017
Occupation
Service Manager
Re: Light Under Kitchen Sink

Originally posted by electricmanscott:
George you are joking right? 410.8? "Luminaires in clothes closets". Honey could you grab my pants ? Where are they sweetie? Under the sink, Duh! :D
Oh and it is now a hazardous location? :D

If an entire section is devoted to clothes closets, which are filled with combustibles and what ifs, is it that big a stretch to attempt to apply it to cabinets with aerosol cans and whatnot?

I understand, it's a little silly, but worth thinking about, IMO.
 

peter d

Senior Member
Location
New England
Re: Light Under Kitchen Sink

Originally posted by georgestolz:
Scott, by code I can make a lightbulb filled with gasoline.
You mean, you've tried that too? I had trouble maintaining a good seal after I poured in the gasoline. Then the darn thing wouldn't light. And it stunk to high heaven.
 

benaround

Senior Member
Location
Arizona
Re: Light Under Kitchen Sink

mc5w

How about a regular above counter location for the switch(s) maybe with an indicating bulb,or fed off the main kitchen light, if it's off the power is off to the bottom cabinets.

frank
 

mc5w

Senior Member
Re: Light Under Kitchen Sink

Beenaround,

Yes, a pilot light switch would work but that may be too smart for some people.

A compact and CHEAP limit switch would be a magnetic reed switch of the type that is used for burglar alarms. It can be recessed into the woodwork so that it will not act as a meathook. You would then need to wire these to a 24 volt transformer and a power relay with normally closed contacts. You could switch say a dozen lights using a bunch of reed switches and 1 transformer and relay if you want to be cheap.

One handy device is that Honeywell makes a combination 24 volt transformer and power relay that are mounted on a 4x4 box cover. You can get it it in single pole double throw and double pole double throw. The normally closed contact of the plug in relay is rated for speed control of blowers ( high for AC, medium for heat ). This transformer/relay package is commonly seen on forced hot water heating systems to control the circulator pump.
 

charlie b

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Staff member
Location
Lockport, IL
Occupation
Retired Electrical Engineer
Re: Light Under Kitchen Sink

Just out of curiosity (or perhaps out of mean spiritedness :D ), where did you get the power for the light? You can?t have used the small appliance circuits, because of 210.52(B)(2). I must suppose that you ran a special 20 amp circuit for this 1/2 amp load.
 

charlie b

Moderator
Staff member
Location
Lockport, IL
Occupation
Retired Electrical Engineer
Re: Light Under Kitchen Sink

Yes, it could be fed from the lighting circuit that runs along the baseboard of the kitchen cabinets or within the walls just behind the cabinets. There are lighting circuits there already, right? :D
 

bensonelectric

Senior Member
Re: Light Under Kitchen Sink

I could see a small florescent at the back of a cabinet being convenient, however I would leave it up to the cabinet manufacturer to build into the cabinet. Control wouldn't have to be with an expensive IR type motion detector, this simple function could be accomplished with a 5 cent photocell and a couple capacitors, a transistor and a SCR. I have seen mini-florescent for computers, that could be used in place of a typical florescent. Theoretically you could create a complete system, using only basic parts, that would also be a convenient class 2 system (12v). Buying the cold-cathodes at production cost, manufacturing the rest you could sell it at 30 bucks per cabinet.

Would it sell? Maybe.

Most people probably saw under cabinet lighting as silly 40 years ago, but now its standard with new homes. When you really think about it, the back of those deep cabinets can be hard to see into sometimes when a simple low voltage light could fix the problem.

EDIT: The more I thought about this, I started thinking about other low-voltage lighting options, such as LEDs. 12 LEDs could very easly light up the inside of a cabinet, and are very easy to controll, and use very little power.

[ March 29, 2005, 01:23 AM: Message edited by: bensonelectric ]
 
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