jimwalker
Senior Member
- Location
- TAMPA FLORIDA
What exactly are the codes that force the use of I C cans? Is this an option or mandatory ?
I C cans
- Thread starter jimwalker
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peter d
Senior Member
- Location
- New England
Re: I C cans
To comply with energy codes, there can't be huge gaps or breaks in insulation. This would rule out non-IC cans in the majority of installations.
I can't think of many places where you could still install a non-IC can.
Perhaps a rec room in a basement. I have not seen a non-IC can installed in a new home for quite some time now.
Most of the new codes are requiring cans to be air-tight.
[ July 10, 2005, 12:15 PM: Message edited by: peter d ]
To comply with energy codes, there can't be huge gaps or breaks in insulation. This would rule out non-IC cans in the majority of installations.
I can't think of many places where you could still install a non-IC can.
Perhaps a rec room in a basement. I have not seen a non-IC can installed in a new home for quite some time now. Most of the new codes are requiring cans to be air-tight.
[ July 10, 2005, 12:15 PM: Message edited by: peter d ]
al hildenbrand
Senior Member
- Location
- Minnesota
- Occupation
- Electrical Contractor, Electrical Consultant, Electrical Engineer
Re: I C cans
The occupancy energy codes and building code requirements in efffect for the jurisdiction will be a component (in addition to the NEC) of the regulation brought to bare at the job address.
The occupancy energy codes and building code requirements in efffect for the jurisdiction will be a component (in addition to the NEC) of the regulation brought to bare at the job address.
jimwalker
Senior Member
- Location
- TAMPA FLORIDA
Re: I C cans
The cans involved are in an office with hard ceilings.Seems that 50 some of them without IC got installed without being noticed.Will get more details monday morning.I was surprised that
non i c were even available anymore.There are i c cans that are not air tight but why would anyone use a non ic can ?
The cans involved are in an office with hard ceilings.Seems that 50 some of them without IC got installed without being noticed.Will get more details monday morning.I was surprised that
non i c were even available anymore.There are i c cans that are not air tight but why would anyone use a non ic can ?
- Location
- Windsor, CO NEC: 2017
- Occupation
- Service Manager
Re: I C cans
The shorty cans I have used are non-IC rated. They have gotten me out of a pinch or two.
What does IC/non-IC have to do with air-tightness? Halos are holier than...a...holy thing and are IC rated.
[ July 10, 2005, 12:33 PM: Message edited by: georgestolz ]
The shorty cans I have used are non-IC rated. They have gotten me out of a pinch or two.
What does IC/non-IC have to do with air-tightness? Halos are holier than...a...holy thing and are IC rated.
[ July 10, 2005, 12:33 PM: Message edited by: georgestolz ]
al hildenbrand
Senior Member
- Location
- Minnesota
- Occupation
- Electrical Contractor, Electrical Consultant, Electrical Engineer
Re: I C cans
Jim,
Is this ceiling insulated?
As an aside, the basic thermally protected nonIC can is hugely installed up here in Minnesota. Just have to go to IC and IC air tights when insulation is in contact or the building energy requirements dictate.
Jim,
Is this ceiling insulated?
As an aside, the basic thermally protected nonIC can is hugely installed up here in Minnesota. Just have to go to IC and IC air tights when insulation is in contact or the building energy requirements dictate.
- Location
- New Jersey
- Occupation
- Journeyman Electrician
Re: I C cans
We use both types in residential construction. Any area without insulation we use the non-IC type. This would be uninsulated ceilings on the first floor of a two story dwelling or in a basement. In all insulated areas we use the IC type. Here in the northeast attic spaces generally require R-38 insulation which is about 12-13 inches thick. This covers the IC-can entirely.
We use both types in residential construction. Any area without insulation we use the non-IC type. This would be uninsulated ceilings on the first floor of a two story dwelling or in a basement. In all insulated areas we use the IC type. Here in the northeast attic spaces generally require R-38 insulation which is about 12-13 inches thick. This covers the IC-can entirely.
speedypetey
Senior Member
- Location
- Hudson Valley, NY
Re: I C cans
What infinity said.
I use non-IC can all the time and I am surprised that some of you are surprised that they are still available. Of course they are available and widely used.
Do you guys only work in one story buildings?
What infinity said.
I use non-IC can all the time and I am surprised that some of you are surprised that they are still available. Of course they are available and widely used.
Do you guys only work in one story buildings?
- Location
- Massachusetts
Re: I C cans
Is the space above the hard ceiling an air handling space?
In other words do you need IC cans?
Jim I hardly ever touch IC cans most of our work is in commercial space with air handling ceilings.
The cans we use are neither IC or air tight.
[ July 10, 2005, 06:32 PM: Message edited by: iwire ]
Are they in contact with insulation?
Is the space above the hard ceiling an air handling space?
In other words do you need IC cans?
Jim I hardly ever touch IC cans most of our work is in commercial space with air handling ceilings.
The cans we use are neither IC or air tight.
[ July 10, 2005, 06:32 PM: Message edited by: iwire ]
jimwalker
Senior Member
- Location
- TAMPA FLORIDA
Re: I C cans
yes will have insulation.I just got a brief bit of info on this building.Not sure if it was part of specs .As far as i know non ic cans can be used in ceilings if the insulation is kept away from the cans.Wasn't my goof but will help to fix.I just can't understand why anyone would even want a non ic.The risk of a fire is too high.Someone could simply put the wrong lamp in and burn the building down.Whats the differance in price $1 ?
yes will have insulation.I just got a brief bit of info on this building.Not sure if it was part of specs .As far as i know non ic cans can be used in ceilings if the insulation is kept away from the cans.Wasn't my goof but will help to fix.I just can't understand why anyone would even want a non ic.The risk of a fire is too high.Someone could simply put the wrong lamp in and burn the building down.Whats the differance in price $1 ?
speedypetey
Senior Member
- Location
- Hudson Valley, NY
Re: I C cans
Because non-IC cans look better, have a greater selection of trims and are not required if there is no insulation.
Can you elaborate on how an IC can is safer?
I guess you assume only IC cans are thermally protected?
I also guess you think there is no way to install too large a lamp in an IC can?
I happen to think a can with nothing but air around it is safer.
I have personally seen blown in insulation get brown when laying on top of.....oh no.....an IC can.
What?!?!!
Because non-IC cans look better, have a greater selection of trims and are not required if there is no insulation.
Can you elaborate on how an IC can is safer?
I guess you assume only IC cans are thermally protected?
I also guess you think there is no way to install too large a lamp in an IC can?
I happen to think a can with nothing but air around it is safer.
I have personally seen blown in insulation get brown when laying on top of.....oh no.....an IC can.
jimwalker
Senior Member
- Location
- TAMPA FLORIDA
Re: I C cans
Ok this is what happened.50 halo and liton cans got installed.The cans were white and had a thermal protector mounted on there side.Nobody had read the paper that came with them saying NON IC.Was assumed that since the thermal was on the can that it was IC,big mistake.Seems there was a design change and the ones that are IC have the unit mounted on the top of the can.Our tag gave us options,replace with ic or install a box around it to prevent insulation.Just when did it become our job to safe guard the can from an insulator ? Isn't it his job to not insulate a can ? All 50 got changed out today.I thought that non ic cans didn't have that thermal protector.
Ok this is what happened.50 halo and liton cans got installed.The cans were white and had a thermal protector mounted on there side.Nobody had read the paper that came with them saying NON IC.Was assumed that since the thermal was on the can that it was IC,big mistake.Seems there was a design change and the ones that are IC have the unit mounted on the top of the can.Our tag gave us options,replace with ic or install a box around it to prevent insulation.Just when did it become our job to safe guard the can from an insulator ? Isn't it his job to not insulate a can ? All 50 got changed out today.I thought that non ic cans didn't have that thermal protector.
al hildenbrand
Senior Member
- Location
- Minnesota
- Occupation
- Electrical Contractor, Electrical Consultant, Electrical Engineer
Re: I C cans
I had wondered if that might have been your thought. The non-thermally protected recessed housings are real hard to come by, in my experience, when using units of reputable manufacture. But one can occasionally get them in the $2.00 wonder sales of loss leaders at the local hardware. . .there oughta be a law. . .
Ah.
I had wondered if that might have been your thought. The non-thermally protected recessed housings are real hard to come by, in my experience, when using units of reputable manufacture. But one can occasionally get them in the $2.00 wonder sales of loss leaders at the local hardware. . .there oughta be a law. . .
jimwalker
Senior Member
- Location
- TAMPA FLORIDA
Re: I C cans
Lets just say this was a very exspinsive mistake.16 man hours and 50 cans.Hopefully nobody else will mistake these cans as ic.The WHITE can is the tip off.
Lets just say this was a very exspinsive mistake.16 man hours and 50 cans.Hopefully nobody else will mistake these cans as ic.The WHITE can is the tip off.
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