Aluminum Wire

[Ken9876]

Been working in a home with aluminum wire, what junk, anything you pull out of the box falls apart, who ever did this install should be beaten. Wires at devices are just jammed under the screw never twisted. The ones that were twisted were never wrapped tight to the screw. In my opinion homes with AL wire should be redone. This home especially because of the original install, staples driven too tight, and just a general lack of quality. Have found shorts, open ground wires, internal to the cable probably from damage sustained from the install.
Has anyone else had this much fun with this junk.

 

[Flyersfan]

Re: Aluminum Wire

The loose connections you describe are very typical with aluminum wiring. Just be prepared to spend a lot of time on that job if you haven't already.

 

[Oakey]

Re: Aluminum Wire

I have a customer with similar wiring. She had no idea that it had been in her house,she put it up for sale 2 months ago and the potential buyer passed on the deal because of the home inspectors finding of the AL wire..Junk indeed

 

[Ken9876]

Re: Aluminum Wire

At this home, I have found more problems just doing simple jobs that turn into nightmares. The HO is clueless to these problems, They look at me like really, everything's been working.

I don't feel pig tailing will fix these homes
just rewire.

 

[charlie tuna]

Re: Aluminum Wire

ken,
you would be suprised how many homes are wired with aluminum wire. it sounds like you have a combination of 1) a very poor installation. 2) the use of aluminum wire.

the loose wire on the terminal, was probibly tight at one time, but due to load-no load conditions causing expansion and contraction--the terminations gets loose. and then it like a dog chasing it's tail-- gets hotter-expands more-looser--hotter--etc.. i have worked in project homes where the entire area was wired in aluminum. biggest problem was the appliance circuit receptacles -- the installer "backwired" the receptacles and the homes were about ten years old. the combination of load and pressure caused the spring connection incorporated in the receptacle to cut through the number ten aluminum wire. the outlet would just stop working -- sometime due to the neutral wire and sometimes the hot. when you removed the receptacle the cut aluminum wire would be looking you in the face!! now if the installer would have terminated these outlets under the receptacle screws -- who knows(?) how long the installation would have lasted? on the other hand, i have heard of home inspectors telling people that aluminum wire is against the code and must be replaced before a home can be sold. an old widow, who lived and raised her family in this same home with aluminum wire, and never had a problem, payed a contractor over $5000.00 to replace the aluminum wire with copper..... this was a woman who could not afford this expense. i do not use aluminum wire -- but i have also been in the infrared scanning business since 1989, and have found my share of bad aluminum connections--but also copper-----when it's not terminated right or undersized for the load it feeds.

 

[JROD]

Re: Aluminum Wire

I had a contract for a six dwelling complex where the new owner was doing some refurbishing and exposed some of the wiring. All of the dwellings had aluminum and copper wiring mix. His insurance company would not cover them until all of the aluminum wiring was replaced with copper.

 

[haskindm]

Re: Aluminum Wire

The problems you are experiencing are mostly due to poor installation, not inherent problems with Aluminum wire. Aluminum wire, properly sized and properly installed, should give many years of trouble-free service. The power company in our area uses aluminum wire exclusively and it is rare for there to be a problem. The wiring must be installed properly and the devices MUST BE LISTED FOR AL CONDUCTORS. The problem is that many installers use CU devices on AL wire. When many of these houses were built, I am not sure that AL rated devices were even available. Any wiring method has limitations and must be installed properly. There is no need to "rip out" properly installed wiring just because it is aluminum. Given a choice I would prefer properly installed copper wiring in my house, but I would also prefer properly installed aluminum wiring over improperly installed copper wiring.

 

[don_resqcapt19]

Re: Aluminum Wire

The problems you are experiencing are mostly due to poor installation, not inherent problems with Aluminum wire.

Actually there were problems with the alloy used for aluminum branch circuit sized conductors prior to 1973 or 1974. About that time the alloy was changed and the CO/ALR rated devices were placed into the market. The failure rate of the newer products, is not much different than that for copper intallations. I do agree that even with the older type of wire, the installation was a big part of the problem. Aluminum is not near as forgiving as copper.
Don

 

[Ken9876]

Re: Aluminum Wire

Do agree that even with the older type of wire, the installation was a big part of the problem. Aluminum is not near as forgiving as copper.
Don

That's what I'm finding, the AL wire is just too soft to have taken any abuse during install. I'm sure as Charlie mentioned if the installers weren't such hacks this home would be in better shape.

 

[IBKCEC]

Re: Aluminum Wire

From what I understand, beyond the fact of poor wiring methods, aluminum contracts and expands at a different rate than copper clad steel found on most devices, and so loose connections will continue to take place no matter what.
Because of this, all such connections would need to be checked periodically, and resecured to insure that arcing does not occurr which might lead to the possibility of fire.
I use a compound, "Nolux",which helps maintain connection between the two metals between maintenance.
I think Charlie Tuna is on track with devices designed for aluminum although I'am not personally familiar with such.
It really is a shame, aluminum really is a great conductor.

 

[Minuteman]

Re: Aluminum Wire

Through a Mechanical Contractor buddy, we started handling service calls for a 340 unit apartment complex built sometime in the 70's. All the conductors size #8 and up are what the Director of Maintenance calls, "non copper".

The weather here has fluctuated from mid 60 degrees for a daily high temp. To mid 20's for the high. Then back to the 60's.

The building built durring the first phase of construction have 100 amp fused disconnects, and we have been called out to several apts due to heat damaged fuse holders.

We replace the disconnects with a small load center that only holds a 100 breaker and the service wire fro the meter to the disconnect. Then we No OX everything and tighten everything inside of the house panel.

However, last night I was on call and went back to one that was converted about 2 months ago. The furnace feeder conductors had worked loose and was tripping the breaker. I found several loose connections that my guys had NO OX'ed and tightened.

Does anyone know of a "Lock Tight" or something that would help prevent the connections fro working loose?

{Thanks Spell Check}

[ December 31, 2005, 04:33 PM: Message edited by: Minuteman ]

 

[Ken9876]

Re: Aluminum Wire

IBKCEC

I pray your not just using any old wire nut on a AL to AL connection, or AL to CU. You need to use a approved method for splicing the wires. Ideal sells wire nuts for this purpose, there purple and about $2.00 each, that's right each, or AMP a division of TYCO leases a tooling system, $725 for the training, I do not know the cost of the connectors. Nolux and a non approved wire nut do not make a good connection, nor are they UL listed or approve to do so. IN any event you need to use approved materials with the wiring method.

 

[sameguy]

Re: Aluminum Wire

Try ground bars al/cu cut to number of holes then copper pigtails and tape. When you move the old alum. wire it should be retightened so you see the problem. Good luck, show the home owner where the insulation has burned back from being loose; even when it still works. I found the duplex was hot to the touch due to the load passing through from other openings, bad connection.