Back Stabbed Recepticals

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Karl H

Senior Member
Location
San Diego,CA
Today, my apprentice came up to me after completing 16 hours of trim in an office building. He wanted to know why we back-stab devices in commercial "like they do in residential."

Being the constant purveyor of truth and wisdom to all the young apprentices...with a stern glare, I responded, "cause I said so, now get back to work!" lol. This is a good kid, very rare...he's eager to learn so I always make every attempt I can to answer his questions with an NEC text reference and a real world explanation, based on my experience so that the other foreman and journeymen can't fool him into believeing their hysterically odd and uneducated interpretations of the NEC or electrical theory.

Well, this particular question I cannot answer based on my knowledge of the NEC or any other mandate. Honestly, I've never even thought about it. To me, a "back-stabbed receptical" was a "receptical that you have to replace after finding it the cause of an open circuit at your friends house." lol.

So why is it that it is not permitted? I have my ideas but nothing based on a mandate I've read. What is the NEC reference?Anyway, if they did make 15I or 20I devices that allowed # 12 to be back stabbed they would be forbiden on my jobs just because of the fail rate.

Thanks in advance.
 
R

RUWired

Senior Member
Location
Pa.
Karl H said:
Sorry I meant to say "Why can't we Back Stab?"
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Karl, I don't think its a code problem. 12 awg will not fit into the back of 15 amp devices, and a lot of commercial receptacle circuits are specified 12 awg wiring .Most of the 20 amp devices are back wired, but with pressure by means of a screw.
Rick
 
480sparky

480sparky

Senior Member
Location
Iowegia
If I remember, they used to accept 12, but they couldn't manufacture any more after 1/1/2000. But I think it's OK to still us them if you have them, but why?
 
360Youth

360Youth

Senior Member
Location
Newport, NC
Back in my less informed days, the right size drill bit and touch, and a pile of receptacles, would speed up the process during trim. :roll:
 
K

Karl H

Senior Member
Location
San Diego,CA
I made a serious typo on the second sentence. He asked "why can't we back stab?" We only use 20I recepts and their are no back stab holes.His question was observant do to the fact that "Time is Money" and other than commercial use them for speed.Even though the failure rate is very high,in my experience.Back stab is still the norm nonetheless.I could tell him we have continous loads,critical or life safety issuses etc. But, i want to give him the the reason why by mandate. I think i remember 17 years ago stabbing 12's into recepts and then no longer being able to by code or something.Then manufactures started making recepts that would only accept #14 not permiting 12's to be stabbed.Something happened and only a code change or another law,liability etc. would stop a product line.Someone has to remember. It would have been easier to say "Cause I said so!" lol
 
ptonsparky

ptonsparky

Tom
Location
NE (9.06 miles @5.9 Degrees from Winged Horses)
Occupation
EC - retired
Quit using the back stabs some years ago. I noticed that when pulling backstab devices away from the box during a remodel that the conductors would slide out of the hole. Can't get them loose at original installation so I suspect the spring tension failed due to heat or just PP design.
 
tallguy

tallguy

Senior Member
ptonsparky said:
Quit using the back stabs some years ago. I noticed that when pulling backstab devices away from the box during a remodel that the conductors would slide out of the hole. Can't get them loose at original installation so I suspect the spring tension failed due to heat or just PP design.
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If you grab an older one that is supposed to work with 12 or 14, you'll notice that the wire wiggles back and forth laterally -- the surface interface between the device and the copper is pretty small. That problem has been "solved" by the fact that the new ones only fit #14, snugly. Doesn't make me feel warm and fuzzy.

I think that Karl's answer is right in the 1st post:

To me, a "back-stabbed receptical" was a "receptical that you have to replace after finding it the cause of an open circuit at your friends house." lol.
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My guess is that they are not available for #12 due to UL. Can't imagine why one would use them on #14 - pressure plate design works nicely though.
 
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TOOL_5150

TOOL_5150

Senior Member
Location
bay area, ca
I came across a box of leviton Sp 15A switches that accepted #14 and #12, said right on them. I thought it was kind of weird, havent seen any since.

~Matt
 
W

wireman71

Senior Member
I can't recall seeing a dangerous back stab connection on a service call. Seems that I replaced one that was a little blackened but is was in a very old house. I have seen wirenuts melted off the spring due to bad connections creating a fire hazard.
 
TOOL_5150

TOOL_5150

Senior Member
Location
bay area, ca
I just came across a #12 AND #14 back stab recep! here it is:

DSC00283_resize.jpg


DSC00284_resize.jpg


DSC00285_resize.jpg


I looked at it closely and looks like it was stabbed and removed - maybe due to loose stab? the side scres were not used, except for the ground.


~Matt
 
iaov

iaov

Senior Member
Location
Rhinelander WI
Back stabs

Back stabs

I've had the same experience with pulling the recepticle out of the box and having a wire come out of the back stab. Does anyone out there know if some one makes a recepticle with connections like the GFCI's have , namely a back stab with a screw compression conector. On the GFCI's they hold great and it's alot easier than bending wire around a screw.
 
Dennis Alwon

Dennis Alwon

Moderator
Staff member
Location
Chapel Hill, NC
Occupation
Retired Electrical Contractor
iaov said:
I've had the same experience with pulling the recepticle out of the box and having a wire come out of the back stab. Does anyone out there know if some one makes a recepticle with connections like the GFCI's have , namely a back stab with a screw compression conector. On the GFCI's they hold great and it's alot easier than bending wire around a screw.
Click to expand...

I believe the higher end receptacles like Hubbell make them.
 
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