More GFCI questions

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dinky

Member
I have 120/1 cooking equipmnet that keeps tripping the GFCI outlet on a raceway. Is there a way to use a GFCI breaker instead of the outlet and adjust the tripping ampereage? The inspectors are insisting on ground fault protection! The units are tripping at three amps and the equipment needs at least 5 amps.

Dinky :confused: :confused:
 

don_resqcapt19

Moderator
Staff member
Location
Illinois
Occupation
retired electrician
Re: More GFCI questions

The load current has nothing to do with a GFCI trip. It trips based on leakage current (current flowing in other then the hot and neutral). GFCIs, both breakers and receptacles, trip with a 4 to 6 mA leakage current.
Don
 

dinky

Member
Re: More GFCI questions

I believe that it may be caused from the ignition for the gas. the ignitor is going to frame ground and the equipment should be grounded. The tech in the field told me it was grounded properly.
 

jimwalker

Senior Member
Location
TAMPA FLORIDA
Re: More GFCI questions

And if it is grounded and igniter goes to ground then the gfci did its job.No electrons leaving the hot can jump off the bus ,they must all return on the neutral,if any go to the ground then the count is wrong and it trips
 

BruceH

Senior Member
Re: More GFCI questions

I would doubt it. The flame rectification circuit usually is about .02 or so micro-amps, I could be a bit off on that figure but regardless I would doubt this would be your problem.
 

dinky

Member
Re: More GFCI questions

My delema is that the inspector requires GFC outlets on ALL equipment 120/1 in the kitchen, and the manufacturer of the equipment is stating that they can not connect to a GFC outlet because it will trip the outlet.
 

jimwalker

Senior Member
Location
TAMPA FLORIDA
Re: More GFCI questions

Then you have your answer.Your wiring is fine and to code.Put unit back in box and sent it back.How did they get it UL listed if it cant be pluged into the required gfci receptacle ?You can not alter it or remove the gfci,in short it is a boat anchor :D
 

dinky

Member
Re: More GFCI questions

wish I had the option, Does a 20 amp GFC trip at the same current as a 15 amp GFC?
 

jimwalker

Senior Member
Location
TAMPA FLORIDA
Re: More GFCI questions

yes
and it is not a question of options.there is no options,you simply can not use it legally.If you remove the gfci and a worker gets hurt or killed you could be charged with manslauter.Now that you have knowledge on this you cant even plead ignorance.Print this thread out along with the nec code requiring gfci in all commercial kitchen outlets.They have little choice but to redisign it or refund money and scrap them.Does this thing have a UL sticker ?
 

dinky

Member
Re: More GFCI questions

Oh, I understand what you mean, This is for commercial cooking equipment. I may need to change out a few things in the system. I just can not see why their equipment does not conform to the need/use of the GFCI outlets. My job is to figure out how to make it all work and pass code.In other systems we use a ground fault donut manufactered by EATON. This one does not use these, that's why I am looking for some help.
Thanks,
Dinky
 

jimwalker

Senior Member
Location
TAMPA FLORIDA
Re: More GFCI questions

OK but you can not alter or defeat the gfci.And the minute you alter the device it no longer is UL approved.I do know of one way but i will not post it because it basically defeats a gfci.You might ask the mfg if you could hard wire these.Then no gfci would be required.
 

BruceH

Senior Member
Re: More GFCI questions

Dinky, for educational purposes (mine) could you tell us what Company makes this piece of equipment and what exactly is it? The reason is, I have serviced a lot of kitchen equipment in my time and have yet to see any piece of equipment that would not function on gfci receptacles (provided the equipment was not hard wired, then no issue).There is usually a problem with moisture or something that causes these nuisance trips. I would like to know just in case I run into something like this, Thanks.
 

jim dungar

Moderator
Staff member
Location
Wisconsin
Occupation
PE (Retired) - Power Systems
Re: More GFCI questions

I believe you have an internal wiring problem. The ignitor circuit is usually not a direct part of the 120V AC circuit. If it is fed from a transformer or full-wave rectifier then it should not necessarily be the cause of the trip.

This situation shows how the possesion of a UL Listing mark has nothing to do with the ability of the item to be installed per the NEC. In fact the NEC does not require NRTL listing (for most items) it only suggests it as a tool for helping the AHJ approve the item. Very few, if any, UL test procedures are changed with every new Code edition. Also, field modification of equipment does not cause an automatic loss of a UL Listing (for example, all panels without knockouts are field modified when conduits are installed). UL must send an inspector out to field evaluate the modification before the listing mark can definitely be pulled. However the AHJ can accept or refuse the modification.
 

jimwalker

Senior Member
Location
TAMPA FLORIDA
Re: More GFCI questions

"and the manufacturer of the equipment is stating that they can not connect to a GFC outlet because it will trip the outlet"
I think that says it all.
 

dinky

Member
Re: More GFCI questions

It is for two different manufacturers, the first is a Groen Braising pan. They use a new style control circiut on them now and it is just begining to show this problem. the other is a Vulcan Kettle with simalar controls. My Energy Distribution System has GFCI Outlets by code and this is the result. Depending on the EDS system I could get around the GFCI outlet wuith the EATON ground fault, but on the system they have purchased, the GFCIs were used. We are still working with Groen and Vulcan on how to resolve it.
 
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