Backstabs - fact or urban legend?

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WMitch

Member
Guys - I'm not looking to pick a fight here but comments about "backstab" receptacle connections piqued my interest. I'm a packrat when it comes to tools and hardware and I managed to dig up 18 used 15Amp receptacles in conditions ranging from like new to pretty ragged looking. I also have way too much time on my hands.
Anyway I decided to test the backstabs. All of them are the old style spring type. I put a 14 ga wire (stripped correctly) into one backstab hole on each receptacle and tried to pull it out. I could not get any to fail. I'm no Charles Atlas, but I ain't a wimp either. I know I was pulling at least 30-40 lbs.
While I understand that spring tension may decrease over time. I have 3 outlets in my shed that I wired to the backstabs. That was 20 years ago and tomorrow I'm gonna' take them out and test them the same way. I doubt if there will be any failures.
My questions are - If these things fail so much why doesn't the NEC disallow their use? Why does UL continue to list them if the design is inherently unsafe? More importantly, how many of you have really found a correctly assembled backstab that failed vs just passing on what they were taught/told?
 

iwire

Moderator
Staff member
Location
Massachusetts
Re: Backstabs - fact or urban legend?

How about we look at it the from the other direction?

Do you think it is remotely possible that the little contact area provide when using back stabs can provide as low a resistance connection as a screw terminal?

UL is not a quality assurance lab, all UL does is make sure that when a product is used properly that it is relatively safe.
 

BruceH

Senior Member
Re: Backstabs - fact or urban legend?

Just because you can't physically pull out the wire doesn't prove electrical integrity. They usually cause intermittent problems. I've personally seen a number of these fail in my lifetime, albeit, they have been the older ones. I haven't seen any problems with new installations.
 

bphgravity

Senior Member
Location
Florida
Re: Backstabs - fact or urban legend?

I don't believe they fail so much, at least not nearly as many that fail due to the improper use of the connection type. Most that I have seen over the years that failed or started causing problems were due to either the conductor not pushed in far enough or not enough insulation removed from the conductor.
 

don_resqcapt19

Moderator
Staff member
Location
Illinois
Occupation
retired electrician
Re: Backstabs - fact or urban legend?

Why does UL continue to list them if the design is inherently unsafe
They did take a step in the direction a few years ago when UL said that the back stab connection must be sized to accept only #14 wire, thereby limiting their use to 15 amp circuits.
Don
 

sllazar

Member
Re: Backstabs - fact or urban legend?

It has been my experiance on the old style outlets that allowed both #14 and #12 stabs that when you remove a conductor from the stab the correct way and then try to reinstall the conductor, that is when I have seen the wire pop right out. Scott
 

WMitch

Member
Re: Backstabs - fact or urban legend?

What's the feeling on the newer backwired components. I just installed a half dozen GFIs that had a screw driven clamp arrangement. Stick a properly sized (12 ga) and stripped wire in the hole and tighten the screw.

[ February 14, 2006, 05:30 PM: Message edited by: WMitch ]
 

bdarnell

Senior Member
Location
Indianapolis, IN
Occupation
Retired Engineer
Re: Backstabs - fact or urban legend?

Originally posted by WMitch:
Stick a properly sized (12 ga) and stripped wire in the hole and tighten the screw.
That's a little different technology. I feel more comfortable with those.
 

electricmanscott

Senior Member
Location
Boston, MA
Re: Backstabs - fact or urban legend?

Just pulled out a switch yesterday that controlled a few basement lights. It was backstabbed and when I pulled out the wires one connection was slightly melted and blackened. This was in use for about seven years. Not a good connection in my view.
 

celtic

Senior Member
Location
NJ
Re: Backstabs - fact or urban legend?

Originally posted by don_resqcapt19:
Why does UL continue to list them if the design is inherently unsafe
They did take a step in the direction a few years ago when UL said that the back stab connection must be sized to accept only #14 wire, thereby limiting their use to 15 amp circuits.
Don
Interesting....do you have reference to cite?
(I'm no fan of back-stabbing, but need verification of your claim)
 

Minuteman

Senior Member
Re: Backstabs - fact or urban legend?

To many times to count, I have gone on a service call (both residential & commercial) and the complaint was something like: "We checked the breakers, but all these plugs quit working" Nine times out of ten, it will be a backstabed outlet. Half the time, it's the neutral.

By the way, what's everyone's opinion of these?

28249.jpg
 

WMitch

Member
Re: Backstabs - fact or urban legend?

I bought a bunch of Halo light cans that had a smaller version. I tug tested the first one and it came off the fixture wire. I cut them off and used wire nuts.

[ February 14, 2006, 07:35 PM: Message edited by: WMitch ]
 
Re: Backstabs - fact or urban legend?

I agree with minuteman, I have pulled out many receptacles that were backstabbed and the neutral usually pops right out and shows definite arcing.
 

Minuteman

Senior Member
Re: Backstabs - fact or urban legend?

Originally posted by WMitch:
I bought a bunch of Halo light cans that had a smaller version.
Yeah, if they was as big as that one... I would be scared!

[ February 14, 2006, 07:52 PM: Message edited by: Minuteman ]
 

LarryFine

Master Electrician Electric Contractor Richmond VA
Location
Henrico County, VA
Occupation
Electrical Contractor
Re: Backstabs - fact or urban legend?

Originally posted by Minuteman:
By the way, what's everyone's opinion of these?

28249.jpg
My opinion is: I don't want to have to buy the junction boxes!
 

Minuteman

Senior Member
Re: Backstabs - fact or urban legend?

Well, okay the pic is huge, but I wonder how the long term connection will hold up. Will they also fail after long term, due to the small contact area?

[ February 14, 2006, 09:04 PM: Message edited by: Minuteman ]
 

LarryFine

Master Electrician Electric Contractor Richmond VA
Location
Henrico County, VA
Occupation
Electrical Contractor
Re: Backstabs - fact or urban legend?

Originally posted by WMitch:
Anyway I decided to test the backstabs.
A fair test would include years of daily, high-current pass-through use. Heat, not time, is what causes spring contact pressure to weaken.

The heat causes looseness, which causes more heat, and it slowly snowballs over time, similarly to current cycling in aluminum conductors.
 

Jhr

Senior Member
Re: Backstabs - fact or urban legend?

WHY IS IT THAT AS I SCROLL DOWN I KEEP SEEING THIS BIG CHUNCK OF CHEESE :p
 

marinesgt0411

Senior Member
Re: Backstabs - fact or urban legend?

Originally posted by Minuteman:
To many times to count, I have gone on a service call (both residential & commercial) and the complaint was something like: "We checked the breakers, but all these plugs quit working" Nine times out of ten, it will be a backstabed outlet. Half the time, it's the neutral.

By the way, what's everyone's opinion of these?

28249.jpg
Have not used them for long enough yet to tell

they are faster

as far as backstab 9 out of 10 times the switch or receptical that is not working is due to a backstab or not twisting wires before putting on wire nuts at least that is what I find on the service calls I go on
 

monkey

Senior Member
Location
Arizona
Re: Backstabs - fact or urban legend?

those yellow things, or Wagos, are handy for those times where the wires are cut "handyman style", you know, they're so short you can't even get a wirenut to start on them. I have used them to latch on to the bare grounding wire when the previous (ahem) "installer" cut the useless thing off at the sheath. They make a pink one with 2 ports. I think those big yellow ones are for 750MCM aren't they?
 
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