Smokes on a dedicated AFCI breaker or tagged off a bedro

Status
Not open for further replies.

allenwayne

Senior Member
There has been a condition that has come up over the past few years since AFCI was required for smoke detectors That is costing us a fortune in call backs.Before the required afci protection of S/D`s it was hardly an issue.But now it has become something of a monster :D Since this is a great place to learn I figured i would throw it out there to see if any others have had the sane problem,notice I typed sane because this is driving me crazy :eek:
 

bphgravity

Senior Member
Location
Florida
Re: Smokes on a dedicated AFCI breaker or tagged off a bedro

I would suggest contacting the afci manufacturer and the smoke alarm manufacturer. They receive reports everyday and maybe able to provide you a better explanation and even maybe be able to send you a bulletin.

Square D learned about the AFCI problem from complaint calls by electrical contractors. I was able to receive a letter from Seimens listing some equipment and appliances not completely compatable with their afci breakers.
 

luke warmwater

Senior Member
Re: Smokes on a dedicated AFCI breaker or tagged off a bedro

Back to:
you might have some gounding-to-grounded conductor connection, are you positive that you don't?

Also, smoked do have a temperature operating range.

There also could have been a bad run of smokes or AFCI breakers, among others.
 

allenwayne

Senior Member
Re: Smokes on a dedicated AFCI breaker or tagged off a bedro

It has happened in around 4 homes over the past 18 months.We go change out the smokes,check voltage,make sure all connections are clean and tight.Within 24 hours off they go again.Change phases and breaker location in panel.Called again.Have checked that the insulation is not getting the box to hot,no unused openings.disconnect the entire circuit and leave the feed tied to a new smoke sure enough off again.These are all tied into a bedroom circuit,have checked all connections in that room :confused: Two homes had poco come out to test their side never heard from h/o again,the other two changed feed from bedroom to h/r and haven`t had a service call yet.Any ideas???
 

jimwalker

Senior Member
Location
TAMPA FLORIDA
Re: Smokes on a dedicated AFCI breaker or tagged off a bedro

Is there maybe a chance they are going off for a good reason like they actually detected smoke of some kind.I do recall hearing that if someone sprays paint it could mess them up.Could it be they are smoking to close to the smoke det. ? I would be concerned if they stoped calling,did problem go away or did they remove them (not a good thing)
 

George Stolz

Moderator
Staff member
Location
Windsor, CO NEC: 2017
Occupation
Service Manager
Re: Smokes on a dedicated AFCI breaker or tagged off a bedro

What conditions lead you to point the finger at the AFCI? What brand smokes are you using? You say they're going into false alarm? Do the brand of smokes you're using have the memory feature, so that the smoke that detected the "fire" displays a different colored LED?
 

allenwayne

Senior Member
Re: Smokes on a dedicated AFCI breaker or tagged off a bedro

George well in response to first question,The smokes are fed from an afci that feeds a bedroom,we isolated the smoke circuit to the feed wire and had one smoke hooked up to it.Within 12 hours it went off.We are using Kidde battery back up 120 v interconnected detectors.The original detectors were firex brand in one of the houses,another had USI originally (purchasing changes brands like I change my socks :D )My original theory was that somewhere in the bedroom circuit something allowed a momentary loss of voltage that set the detectors off.We went through all boxes checked all connections,even took all receps. and changed back stabs to screw connections.It drove us nuts,why are these going off?Last resort was to HR the smoke circuit .Did this in both homes and haven`t had a call back yet :D It`s been over a month so far so good.I was hoping someone else in this forum would have had the same problem and to find out what they did to correct it.
 

George Stolz

Moderator
Staff member
Location
Windsor, CO NEC: 2017
Occupation
Service Manager
Re: Smokes on a dedicated AFCI breaker or tagged off a bedro

I use Kidde smokes too. On occasion, they will yelp a test beep when they are re-energized. Knowing whether they maintained alarm state or yelped a test would help isolate the problem.

Also, if it is a full-on alarm, knowing which smoke detected issues, or knowing that the problem floats from location to location can help too.
 

allenwayne

Senior Member
Re: Smokes on a dedicated AFCI breaker or tagged off a bedro

It was happening at different times of the day and it was a full on alarm go off or 1 to 3 minutes.I have learned alot over the past 18 months or as to how troubleshhot smoke problems.The most common is a loose or painted neutral connection.Don`t know why this is the most common but it is.To find it have someone shut the breaker off then on again the last smoke that chirps is the culprit :D In the meantime we go day to day hopfully we will find out what the problem is and fix it before it becomes a call back issue :mad:
 

George Stolz

Moderator
Staff member
Location
Windsor, CO NEC: 2017
Occupation
Service Manager
Re: Smokes on a dedicated AFCI breaker or tagged off a bedro

Also have found that the signal wire is suseptable to emf forces .An a/c feed running parallel to a 3 wire from smoke to smoke can cause a false alarm when the condensor kicks in.Move it over problem solved.
Whoa! That's good to know, thanks! :)
 

allenwayne

Senior Member
Re: Smokes on a dedicated AFCI breaker or tagged off a bedro

George as I see it EMF,can and is` a contributing factor ;)
 

al hildenbrand

Senior Member
Location
Minnesota
Occupation
Electrical Contractor, Electrical Consultant, Electrical Engineer
Re: Smokes on a dedicated AFCI breaker or tagged off a bedro

Allen,

This is a great question. I wish I had some kind of an answer. Your explantion of the symptoms you have gathered, along with the types of corrective measures and/or alternative assembly of the premises wiring system that you have done implies, to me, a thoroughness that is effectively and absolutely minimizing the wiring system as the cause of the continued false smoke alarms.

The issue this raises is, to me, about the interaction of two electronic black boxes. Two different bodies of manufacturing regulation must be crowbarred into agreement with each other for the manufactured black boxes to peacefully coexist.

This is nuts.

Another good example of this is the manufacturer's thinking in making the present crop of weatherproof exterior compact fluorsecent lamps that can't be operated by any existing triac switched motion detector or photoeye.
 

al hildenbrand

Senior Member
Location
Minnesota
Occupation
Electrical Contractor, Electrical Consultant, Electrical Engineer
Re: Smokes on a dedicated AFCI breaker or tagged off a bedro

Brrr. Lawyers.

And what's really pathetic is that it will take lawyers to address this otherwise common sense problem.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top